- 13 Nov 12, 13:38#333738
Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren are all top three, and have all been rotating (with Lotus, Mercedes and Williams mixing in from time to time). Australia it was McLaren and Red Bull with Ferrari behind, Malaysia in the wet it was Ferrari with ML+RB behind, Valencia it was McLaren and Ferrari, with Red Bull behind. It has been rotating all season. Just look at where we're now; after 4 Vettel-wins everyone was moaning the season was over, and suddenly McLaren is back in front in Abu Dhabi with Ferrari taking the fight to Webber.
Also, there's a significant difference in race pace and qualifying pace, undoubtedly also aided by the fact Red Bull has two of the best qualifiers on the grid. Suzuka and Korea, they were clearly best, but even before Webber's problems in India Alonso was on par with race pace; if he hadn't screwed qualifying (0.1 ahead of Massa's mistake lap), he would have taken Webber at the start and hunted down Vettel. Despite Vettel's best efforts, he only set the 5th fastest lap in India.
It's a shame you spoil F1 for yourself by convincing yourself that it's not driver skill that brought Vettel and Alonso to fight for the championship and that you fool yourself into believing it's not driver skill that puts in fast qualifying laps, consistent fast laps and the ability to be up there, every single race.
Just found this on 1 forum, looks really nice, a simple idea.
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I hope vettel loses the championship in the last race by a point. Really he puts me off when he wins as do all these cheesy comments by his fans. Never thought I would say this but a mclaren winning is better than a red bull winning. At least mclaren have herritage like ferrari. Red bull are a drinks company. Unless I were a Renault fan I wouldnt bother with red bull.
Welcome back Kiki!
Despite the fact that we definitely do not see eye-to-eye, I miss seeing you around on the forum, and I think that the forum is missing someone with such blatantly bias rose-tinted Ferrari glasses (although some members come close). Please post more often!
And whilst that may have been a "back-handed compliment" it is the truth. I always have memories of my first year on the forum and the back-and-forth banter that we had, each time I open my User Panel and see your name in my friends' list.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaanyways, as is rightly pointed out, by others... you're argument is crazy.Vettel and Red Bull have done the best job this year and hence deserve the title. The fact that Massa got a podium this year means that the car actually does have some pace, and that is quite evident that other than Raikkonen's consistent performances, Ferrari is definitely a top 3 car.
And your arguments are illogical (or maybe I am reading too much into them). How can you say that on one hand, Vettel is only as good as his car, yet on the other, Alonso single-handedly gets the team over the line through pure skill and talent? What is your benchmark for making such a claim? Because I could argue it the opposite way around, using the same logic, but I wouldn't, because I think it is bovine manure. No one can drive better than their car. It is impossible for that to happen.
It is a driver's skill and talent that enables them to drive a car to its limits. I have believed that Alonso was a better driver than Vettel (but Vettel is matching him as he matures), but Vettel IS a skillful driver. If you don't want to give him the credit based on his success (moreso than Alonso) in F1, than by all means look at his junior career before F1. A driver of his calibre DESERVES to drive in F1, and DESERVES to be at the winning team like Red Bull. And there should be no shadow of a doubt when you put the two "careers" together that Vettel IS a talented driver.
It takes a bit more to be a successful driver than just skill level, as Hamilton has more of it than Vettel, and probably all the drivers on the grid (are you listening Racechick?). There are plenty of elements in being a good race driver, that includes your maturity, your mechanical ability, your marketing ability, and the contract/career decisions that you make....
Just remember, Ferrari last won the drivers' championship 5 years ago, and in my opinion, are at present further away from winning the championship than ever before. So a teams' prestige is useless. Ferrari's unsuccessful results are tarnishing their prestige, and I know if I were Vettel I would definitely not even touch them until Ferrari start proving once again to us why they have their "prestige."
Ferrari is top 3, but 2nd and 3rd best (which you can rotate between Ferrari and McLaren) are not as good in terms of car performance as the number 1 team which is Red Bull. Ferrari isn't that fast this year. Well in qualifying at least, Ferrari does seem to have good race pace on race day most of the time but the end result is let down many times because of poor qualifying. Alonso's skill is what and why Ferrari have a chance for the drivers title. And if Kimi hadnt taken him out at Korea he may well still of been in the lead with his inferior Ferrari. Massa is clearly behind Alonso's pace. He has the same car and yet look where he is. The results speak for themselves (and it isnt biased as I am not an Alonso fan but rather a Ferrari fan).
Red Bull have done a lot of work, but so has everyone else. I remember a lot of people saying they were sick of when Schumi won the 5 titles in a row. (or was it just the typical anti Ferrari people as I do not see many complaining about the Red Bull dominance as of late). If Vettel wins this year it will be 3 for him. I am getting sick of him winning. Alonso hasn't won in years now so I would love to see him win for that reason and also to the fact that he has a crappier car than Vettel and it would be a good show of driver skill triumph.
Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren are all top three, and have all been rotating (with Lotus, Mercedes and Williams mixing in from time to time). Australia it was McLaren and Red Bull with Ferrari behind, Malaysia in the wet it was Ferrari with ML+RB behind, Valencia it was McLaren and Ferrari, with Red Bull behind. It has been rotating all season. Just look at where we're now; after 4 Vettel-wins everyone was moaning the season was over, and suddenly McLaren is back in front in Abu Dhabi with Ferrari taking the fight to Webber.
Also, there's a significant difference in race pace and qualifying pace, undoubtedly also aided by the fact Red Bull has two of the best qualifiers on the grid. Suzuka and Korea, they were clearly best, but even before Webber's problems in India Alonso was on par with race pace; if he hadn't screwed qualifying (0.1 ahead of Massa's mistake lap), he would have taken Webber at the start and hunted down Vettel. Despite Vettel's best efforts, he only set the 5th fastest lap in India.
It's a shame you spoil F1 for yourself by convincing yourself that it's not driver skill that brought Vettel and Alonso to fight for the championship and that you fool yourself into believing it's not driver skill that puts in fast qualifying laps, consistent fast laps and the ability to be up there, every single race.
The less intelligent observers say anyone could do it in that car.
- By darwin dali