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[vlad]

If Jenson is so bad at set-up; how come he has gone out on his own with setup/tyres and it's paid off for him. Jenson can only set up the car for himself; maybe it'll be different with Perez as they seem to have similar driving styles, so they can probably help each other, Lewis and Jenson has such different driving styles that it's hard to set up a car for a good balance for both drivers. Although I do think that McLaren's centralised system doesn't work, each driver should have his own mechanics and engineers and never the twain shall meet!

EXACTLY!!!

[racechick]

But he still had to copy Hamilton's set up after six races in the wilderness mid season.

[myownalias]

But he still had to copy Hamilton's set up after six races in the wilderness mid season.

I thought that Button tried Hamilton's setup but that didn't really work for him either. That doesn't mean that a driver isn't good at setup; you don't get to this level of motorsport without knowing something about set-up! I recall Michael Schumacher using his team mates setup a few times over the years. I just think that Button couldn't find a balance with the handling characteristic of this years McLaren, unlike Lewis, Jenson is unable to drive around problems are remain fast like some other drivers, which is probably Jenson's biggest failing in today's F1!

[vlad]

Webber often uses Vettel's setup, when it suits him. That's normal.

[Hammer278]

If Jenson is so bad at set-up; how come he has gone out on his own with setup/tyres and it's paid off for him. Jenson can only set up the car for himself; maybe it'll be different with Perez as they seem to have similar driving styles, so they can probably help each other, Lewis and Jenson has such different driving styles that it's hard to set up a car for a good balance for both drivers. Although I do think that McLaren's centralised system doesn't work, each driver should have his own mechanics and engineers and never the twain shall meet!

I have repeated the answer to this time and time again.

Jenson picks basically the opposite of Lewis' decision. The first example was Melbourne 2 years ago, Button won that race. Why? Everyone on intermediate tyres in the wet, Lewis swoops by Jenson on Lap 2 and the very next lap Button pits for slicks....maybe just couldn't stand being overtaken like he was standing still, and that decision worked out big time.

In Monza that same year I think, there was the choice of going with the f-duct and adding downforce, or no f-duct and less downforce..one of which and McLaren themselves did not know which was best. Lewis chose one, Button the other. The setup Button chose was the better choice, but did Button know better than the McLaren engineers? because if they knew which would garner better results, it wouldn't be a choice anymore!

Fast forward to qualifying in SPa this year. Again, Mclaren doesnt know which is better...both drivers are just experimenting with the new rear wing and finally Lewis decides to stick with the old wing in P3. In Q1, Jenson opts to stick on the new wing (since he knows on equal terms he's lost anyway, with the new wing he'd have the excuse that the new wing just sucks if it didn't work out) and again, a massive pay off.

If you see the trend, Button just picks a separate option from Lewis. Simply because HE KNOWS, in equal material, everyone including him knows what the result is going to be, period.

[Jabberwocky]

If Jenson is so bad at set-up; how come he has gone out on his own with setup/tyres and it's paid off for him. Jenson can only set up the car for himself; maybe it'll be different with Perez as they seem to have similar driving styles, so they can probably help each other, Lewis and Jenson has such different driving styles that it's hard to set up a car for a good balance for both drivers. Although I do think that McLaren's centralised system doesn't work, each driver should have his own mechanics and engineers and never the twain shall meet!

I have repeated the answer to this time and time again.

Jenson picks basically the opposite of Lewis' decision. The first example was Melbourne 2 years ago, Button won that race. Why? Everyone on intermediate tyres in the wet, Lewis swoops by Jenson on Lap 2 and the very next lap Button pits for slicks....maybe just couldn't stand being overtaken like he was standing still, and that decision worked out big time.

In Monza that same year I think, there was the choice of going with the f-duct and adding downforce, or no f-duct and less downforce..one of which and McLaren themselves did not know which was best. Lewis chose one, Button the other. The setup Button chose was the better choice, but did Button know better than the McLaren engineers? because if they knew which would garner better results, it wouldn't be a choice anymore!

Fast forward to qualifying in SPa this year. Again, Mclaren doesnt know which is better...both drivers are just experimenting with the new rear wing and finally Lewis decides to stick with the old wing in P3. In Q1, Jenson opts to stick on the new wing (since he knows on equal terms he's lost anyway, with the new wing he'd have the excuse that the new wing just sucks if it didn't work out) and again, a massive pay off.

If you see the trend, Button just picks a separate option from Lewis. Simply because HE KNOWS, in equal material, everyone including him knows what the result is going to be, period.

lol your funny.

Have you ever thought that maybe Mclaren do it all the time and have 2 options and split the options. You seem to see it as Mclaren are nobbling Lewis, but if Lewis does well it is all down to him. You never seem to think that sometimes the flip of the coin goes in Lewis' favour

[Hammer278]

I never said McLaren are screwing Lewis in that post anywhere did I...so let's not make up stuff. My main and only point in the post was that if there was an option which presents itself where Button could take a differing strategy, he'd take it. Nothing to do with McLarens agenda or whatever.

[Jabberwocky]

I never said McLaren are screwing Lewis in that post anywhere did I...so let's not make up stuff. My main and only point in the post was that if there was an option which presents itself where Button could take a differing strategy, he'd take it. Nothing to do with McLarens agenda or whatever.

I am just saying that you have not mentioned when the stratergy or whatever has worked for Lewis' you implied that Button only does well when things work out for him, I am sure you will find that is the same for 100% of the drivers on the grid!

[Hammer278]

I never said McLaren are screwing Lewis in that post anywhere did I...so let's not make up stuff. My main and only point in the post was that if there was an option which presents itself where Button could take a differing strategy, he'd take it. Nothing to do with McLarens agenda or whatever.

I am just saying that you have not mentioned when the stratergy or whatever has worked for Lewis' you implied that Button only does well when things work out for him, I am sure you will find that is the same for 100% of the drivers on the grid!

Yeah well Button is usually too far back to see if the strategy McLaren employs works for him anyway.

Plus, if you manage a simple recollection of Button overtaking Lewis on pure pace on track/during pitstops at any time you deserve a gold medal....which supports my point of Button finding it wise whenever possible to take an alternate route in order to be faster than Lewis. It is indeed wise...which is why he manages to wins a couple of races here and there, especially in a clueless team like McLaren who can't figure out if new innovations are better or not.

[myownalias]

I don't believe for a moment that Button goes for a different strategy because he can't beat Hamilton on equal terms; what's the point of that? If Lewis' strategy is correct, it's better to come second than finish fifth just because he didn't want to use the same strategy. Button makes brave strategy calls, especially so in changeable conditions, and it has paid off for him, talking about what happens in a race is pointless, the important thing is the finishing positions. And if Jenson does have a different setup and strategy, that would make sense as Jenson does tend to be the slow and steady wins the race type of driver, while Lewis is a balls to the wall type of driver.

[Hammer278]

I don't believe for a moment that Button goes for a different strategy because he can't beat Hamilton on equal terms; what's the point of that? If Lewis' strategy is correct, it's better to come second than finish fifth just because he didn't want to use the same strategy. Button makes brave strategy calls, especially so in changeable conditions, and it has paid off for him, talking about what happens in a race is pointless, the important thing is the finishing positions. And if Jenson does have a different setup and strategy, that would make sense as Jenson does tend to be the slow and steady wins the race type of driver, while Lewis is a balls to the wall type of driver.

I'm trying to point out the times when the team is not sure IF a strategy is correct or if a new part/innovation will give something more...when there's some unpredictability, Button seems to make sure he's on the differing side. 85% of the time through an entire season, the strategies/know-how will be clear in the team.

[Jabberwocky]

So your saying Lewis picks to wrong strategy?

[Hammer278]

So your saying Lewis picks to wrong strategy?

.....

[CookinFlat6]

I think McLaren pick the best strategy to suit Lewis and his strenghts. this is normally route A,, the best way to complete 60 laps driving as fast as you can.

Jensons side then concentrate on trying to beat Lewis by frequently switching to plan B and hoping for the best. sometimes it works, sometimes spectacularly, but overall its not better and throws up some real stinkers

Take the slump mid season for Jenson, I do not think anything was that wrong with Jensons setup, its just that lewis was much faster full stop, and in trying to beat him jensons side gambled heavily on setup resulting in Red and not black at the roulette wheel. If Jenson had just admitted to himself that Lewis will always be faster and better and then concentrate on comming in closely behind him we wouldnt have seen the whole season become a disaster for McLaren as they wasted resources and time trying to build wings for a lame duck

[bud]

Agh good, nothing's changed in this thread.