FORUMula1.com

[andrew]

Sponsors.

[racechick]

Yes. They followed on from rich daddies I guess.

[andrew]

Not always. There are always going to be some drivers from well off families but there have been quite a few who are from regular families with parent to work extremely hard to let their kids follow their dream.

[Denthúl]

I seethe at the way the kid has had to fight hard every step of the way to be able to produce drives like today, compared to other spoilt pampered useless lazy drivers, and I seethe at the attitudes and ignorance shown towards a driver that any racing fan understands is as rare as they come

When you think back to Hamilton's entry into the world of F1, this is pretty funny.

Yes lets think back to Hamilton's entry into the world of F1 without the usual attitudes and ignorance

You should probably address your own problems there, but let's carry on.

How many other rookie F1 drivers have had to win every single series on their way into F1?

There is no evidence that Hamilton had to win those categories; other drivers arguably less talented have progressed without doing so. That he did proves his talent, but you make it sound an absolute requirement, when it was not. For the sake of this argument, however, a quick check shows that Nico Hülkenberg, Nick Heidfeld, Kimi Räikkönen, Felipe Massa, Romain Grosjean, Giancarlo Fisichella, Luca Badoer, Alex Wurz... All of these took a championship in each of the junior single-seater categories they competed in and I haven't even looked back too far.

Compared to Button or Vettel, even after winning everything else, how old was he when he entered F1?

Vettel: 19 years and 349 days
Button: 20 years and 67 days
Hamilton: 22 years and 80 days (I think)

He was kicked off the young driver programme by Whitmarsh as he objected to being held back

And then ran back to them, tail between his legs, when BMW vetoed a signing by Williams?

He was only given a shot at Mclaren as there was no one else available, PDR was almost given the seat

Do you actually have a source for that? I heard rumours that it was originally going to be Paffett as he impressed more in testing before Michelin pulled out, but I never saw anything which proved that.

So there you have it, the same ignorant attitudes, like he was handed a seat without having to fight every step of the way, like he didnt then have to almost win in his rookie year to retain the seat

I don't deny that, like all drivers, he's had to fight. But his has been by no means the most difficult; he has been sponsored and pushed by one of the biggest and most successful F1 teams of all time throughout most of his career and then made his debut in what could be considered the best car of the season. How many other F1 drivers have been fortunate enough to have that opportunity? The only one that I can think of coming close is Jacques Villeneuve in '97, and even then I don't think he had anywhere near the same level of support from a F1 team during his junior career.

Your move.

I seethe at the way the kid has had to fight hard every step of the way to be able to produce drives like today, compared to other spoilt pampered useless lazy drivers, and I seethe at the attitudes and ignorance shown towards a driver that any racing fan understands is as rare as they come

When you think back to Hamilton's entry into the world of F1, this is pretty funny.

You mean his dad who had to work more than 2 jobs to help Lewis get into racing? Doesn't sound like Lewis was transported from his mansion to the kart track in a limo to me?

Or are you talking about his McLaren backing which came a bit later? Damn straight, if you're that good at what you do you deserve the damn backing and he repaid them in full - took F1 by storm during his rookie year and gave them a World Championship in his 2nd year.

If you worked your a&se of for a few years and knew you were a serious talent, and a giant backer comes to you and asks if you need help, what do you say? No, f**k off? Jeez, who gives a crap about all his pre-F1 stories anyway, its NOW we are talking about and how he keeps getting screwed by a faded version of a once great team over and over again. Anyway, it's all almost over thankfully for both McLaren and Lewis fans.

Sometimes I think you look for an argument at any possible opportunity when it comes to Hamilton. I don't deny that he didn't deserve it, I don't deny that he is hugely talented and this will lead to you being noticed. All I'm doing is pointing out that he did not have the worst struggle in all of history to actually get in to F1, as was being implied in the post I responded to.

[Hammer278]

I just find it strange that people bring up how "easy" Hamilton had it in his road to F1 when there are arguments regarding the bad luck he's had in the sport.

When we argue about any other driver, no one brings up their path to F1 even if it was easier/harder than Hamiltons, its almost like people think Lewis deserves some suffering in F1 just because his talent before helped him secure backing from McLaren at an early age. My point is, so what? As you say, he's not had the worst of struggles, but by no means the easiest...if his talent deserves a place in F1, the way he got into F1 is by no means a factor in any argument.

[racechick]

I don't think it's just about getting to F1 with Hamilton, having arrived, he's been met with jealousy, prejudice, unfairness, unfriendliness. Ok I hear some people say " well tough , deal with it". That's a fair point. But it's waring, and Lewis does get affected by it, that's his temperament. Lewis seems to have to do twice the stuff other drivers do to receive recognition and half as much to receive criticism.
The things I'm talking about are.........

The spate of steward incidents.

Can you image the field day the press would have had if it had been Hamilton taking a six race vacation this season and hitting two other cars? But it's forgotten.

When Hamilton is politically incorrect, all hell descends. When Kimi does it, it's funny.

Countless, countless examples of this.

Only this weekend in P1 I heard a BBC pundit waxing lyrical about Buttons driving, saying he was like an artist and Lewis was too busy and should learn from him. Ok he said it might help in quali but not over a race. What races has he been watching this season?? Lewis then banged in a lap a second faster than Button. Silence

I can understand other drivers trying to put him down. mind games , in their interest. But the media? Whats that all about?
And his own team?? Beyond belief.

We may be a funny lot us Lewis fans , but we have to take a hell of a lot of crap and watch our driver take a hell of a lot of crap. It's why we get a bit uppity sometimes.

Ok, got that out my system

[Hammer278]

Funny you talk about the Kimi instance, I was wondering that for a long time. The guy can be rude as hell in front of the media but everyone thinks he's a funny character....probably because of his accent and the way he says it I don't know.

But if Hamilton were to say something like "I was taking a sh*t" instead of attending some important ceremony, he'd probably have to give some sort of public apology and do 30 hours of community service.

[CookinFlat6]

For the sake of this argument, however, a quick check shows that Nico Hülkenberg, Nick Heidfeld, Kimi Räikkönen, Felipe Massa, Romain Grosjean, Giancarlo Fisichella, Luca Badoer, Alex Wurz... All of these took a championship in each of the junior single-seater categories they competed in and I haven't even looked back too far

All I'm doing is pointing out that he did not have the worst struggle in all of history to actually get in to F1, as was being implied in the post I responded to.

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to formulate and lay out a reasoned counter argument, this approach seems to recently get over looked for the hysteria and the blanket conspiracy ridicule route complete with silly smilies and childish 'you are all daft, so there' inaneness

Hamilton was required to win every series as a condition of continued support

Lets compare Lewis with a randomly selected driver from your list

Lewis Formula Renault, Formula 3, GP2 - F1

Massa Formula Renault, Euro Formula 3000 - F1 (Massa fathers owns the biggest Ferrari dealership in Brazil btw)

Id say Lewis had the tougher route in this case, however when one talks about a tougher criteria to land an F1 seat, one does not generally ignore the scrutiny, hatred, bigotry and unfairness that has accompanied him even after entering

So I am still finding it hard to see anything funny about how much harder overall he has had it compared to sons of drivers etc

Who said he has had the toughest route of all time? Compared to many others he has not had an easy route - lets focus on what we are actually disputing here

[Denthúl]

As you say, he's not had the worst of struggles, but by no means the easiest...if his talent deserves a place in F1, the way he got into F1 is by no means a factor in any argument.

Pretty much. I was just addressing what is, to me, a ridiculous statement.

Let's face it, there have been people with big enough budgets who haven't impressed in junior categories but done well in F1, people with crazy sponsorship who have utterly failed when they get to F1, and those who should have made it but never had the money. It's about luck, money, and talent. Not always in the right ratio, sadly. One thing is certain, though. It would be a huge shame if he hadn't made it.

[racechick]

I agree with your last point Dent

[Denthúl]

I agree with your last point Dent

You should just agree with all my points. Makes life easier on my keyboard, I don't have to type as much!

[LewEngBridewell]

I agree with your last point Dent

You should just agree with all my points. Makes life easier on my keyboard, I don't have to type as much!

[andrew]

I agree with your last point Dent

You should just agree with all my points. Makes life easier on my keyboard, I don't have to type as much!

Ture but we'd get in trouble for that.

[CookinFlat6]

I think someone is changing goalposts here

first of all its funny to suggest Lewis had to work hard to enter F1 as he had McLaren make it easy for him

then it becomes - he earned his way through talent, but hasnt had the toughest road of all time

same old attitudes no matter how one skins em

[Denthúl]

first of all its funny to suggest Lewis had to work hard to enter F1 as he had McLaren make it easy for him

It wasn't funny to suggest that he had to work hard, but continue to think that way if you want.

Edit: Since you will likely complain about that, I'll elaborate. What I found specifically funny was the bit about "pampered" and "lazy" drivers, when being compared to someone who had significant backing from a top team.