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[zpetrov]

This is just for fun.

Imagine if we took the existing qualifying format, but we change the last stage (Q3) to be a one-lap shoot-out, as qualifying was a few years ago- every driver goes out for 1 lap with no other cars on the circuit and the order they go out in is the order in which they qualified in Q2.

I propose this because I think Q3 just sucks right now for so many reasons:

1. We have to wait for about 6 minutes for the cars to go out since they only do 1/2 laps anyway.

2. Since they are all out on track at the same time, we get yellow flags, people interfering with each other's laps, etc. Every race someone complains about being slowed down or getting caught by yellow flags.

3. Because they are all out at the same time, we don't get to watch each driver actually... you know... drive a lap.

Instead we get to watch the start/finish line as all the drivers cross it sequentially, about 3 seconds apart since the camera can't follow them all around the track.

What's the point of that? Don't we watch qualifying to actually see them drive? What's the difference between watching drivers crossing the start/finish line and just looking at the lap times online?

If we had one-lap shoot-outs like before we would actually have the cameras following each of the Top 10 drivers for 1 full lap. That means we'd actually get to see the fun stuff- the steering input, the sliding, the curb riding, everything.

And since most drivers only do 1 or 2 flying laps anyway, there would be almost no difference except that there would be no traffic, no one will be able to complain about not having a clear track, and we would actually get to see each of the Top 10 drivers drive a full, complete lap for the pole.

Also, it's just more exciting IMO.

Thoughts?

[zpetrov]

PS: This would also make Q2 better since it will no longer be just about "getting into Q3". Everyone would want to be the last or next-to-last guy out on track during the 1-lap shoot-out in Q3, so we'd see drivers pushing even harder to top the Q2 time sheets.

[darwin dali]

Nah, this would take out the flexibility for the drivers to choose when it's best to go out. Imagine rain is coming and Q3 takes much longer with your proposal: 10 drivers x 3 laps (in and out and hot) x 1 min 30 or so = 50 minutes! The last couple drivers (who were the fastest in Q2) have to wait forever to get on track and by then they'll get rained out w/o the chance of having posted a 'banker lap' - very unfair.
As it is now, it's up to the teams/drivers to manage the time and laps and if they screw up or get affected by a yellow flag, it's their mismanagement and not the quali format that screws them over.

[zpetrov]

Nah, this would take out the flexibility for the drivers to choose when it's best to go out. Imagine rain is coming and Q3 takes much longer with your proposal: 10 drivers x 3 laps (in and out and hot) x 1 min 30 or so = 50 minutes! The last couple drivers (who were the fastest in Q2) have to wait forever to get on track and by then they'll get rained out w/o the chance of having posted a 'banker lap' - very unfair.
As it is now, it's up to the teams/drivers to manage the time and laps and if they screw up or get affected by a yellow flag, it's their mismanagement and not the quali format that screws them over.

I doubt the rain issue is a big enough cost to outweigh all the benefits (clear track, getting to see every Top 10 complete a full lap, no interference from yellow flags, no waiting for 5/6 minutes for the first car to go out, etc.).

First, rain is rare. In the grand scheme of things, we see rainy qualifying very rarely compared to normal, sunny qualifying.

Second, when it's about to rain, everything is a crapshoot anyway. I really don't recall the best drivers consistently nailing their outing timings to get out just before the weather starts turning. There is no meteorologist that can tell you whether it's going to rain in 5 minutes or 50 minutes.

Such technology doesn't exist, not even in NASA, let alone F1.

Third, the worst case scenario is that you start 10th because of the rain.

And that can only happen if it starts pouring if you were 1st in Q2 AND the weather was good for all 9 guys right before you AND it starts raining/getting cold right before you go out or if you were 10th in Q2 and the weather clears up magically immediately after you finish your qualifying lap and the track dries instantly.

The odds of that aren't exactly big.

Sure, it may happen in freaky circumstances, but again- there is really not an enormous amount of value in having that flexibility because no one can say for sure when it'll start raining. It's a crapshoot no matter what.

And the quali won't take 50 mins because the next driver is released before the last driver finishes his flying lap. At most, it should take 30 minutes, though really more like 20 if they get it right.

Finally- the yellow flags' consequences aren't teams' faults. Everyone goes out in the last 4 minutes. That's just what they do in these circumstances because that's what they are incentivized to do. And that by itself increases the probability of a crash -> yellow flag, btw.

Ultimately there are costs and benefits to everything. I just don't see how the minute probability that someone gets screwed in the rain when they wouldn't have gotten screwed otherwise would really outweigh everything else.

[LewEngBridewell]

To be honest, I thought the one-lap shoot-out was crap. Much prefer it now. Just needs a little tweaking with the tyres.

[zpetrov]

To be honest, I thought the one-lap shoot-out was crap. Much prefer it now. Just needs a little tweaking with the tyres.

Fair, but why?

I've never understood what people like about Q3 right now. They all still do 1 or 2 laps in many cases. The first 5 minutes is often boring (since literally nothing happens). Then suddenly the last 30 seconds is mayhem on steroids since everyone is crossing the finish line practically at the same time. We don't get to see most drivers actually do their lap since the cameras can't follow them all. We always end up with silly debates about "true" performance because one or two drivers were either caught by yellow flags or "slowed down" by traffic. We have had near-misses in the pit lane due to drivers all scrambling to get out at the exact same time. We often miss interesting things happening during people's laps because the cameras are trained on the finish line so we have to watch it all on replay (meaning we might as well see the results online).

So it's basically exactly the same as the 1-lap quali. The only difference is that they are all out at the same time which produces mayhem and difficulty actually following drivers and their laps.

What good does that do?

And did you hate 1-lap quali due to the stupid fuel rules, which forced people to start on race loads, making performance comparisons difficult?

My idea is NOT to have that again. I have no interest in having that mess again.

[Denthúl]

To be honest, I thought the one-lap shoot-out was crap. Much prefer it now. Just needs a little tweaking with the tyres.

Yep.

Well, the tyre rules need changing completely anyways...

[LewEngBridewell]

To be honest, I thought the one-lap shoot-out was crap. Much prefer it now. Just needs a little tweaking with the tyres.

Fair, but why?

I've never understood what people like about Q3 right now. They all still do 1 or 2 laps in many cases. The first 5 minutes is often boring (since literally nothing happens). Then suddenly the last 30 seconds is mayhem on steroids since everyone is crossing the finish line practically at the same time. We don't get to see most drivers actually do their lap since the cameras can't follow them all. We always end up with silly debates about "true" performance because one or two drivers were either caught by yellow flags or "slowed down" by traffic. We have had near-misses in the pit lane due to drivers all scrambling to get out at the exact same time. We often miss interesting things happening during people's laps because the cameras are trained on the finish line so we have to watch it all on replay (meaning we might as well see the results online).

So it's basically exactly the same as the 1-lap quali. The only difference is that they are all out at the same time which produces mayhem and difficulty actually following drivers and their laps.

What good does that do?

And did you hate 1-lap quali due to the stupid fuel rules, which forced people to start on race loads, making performance comparisons difficult?

My idea is NOT to have that again. I have no interest in having that mess again.

I just found the one-lap shoot-outs a bit drawn out and boring. Bear in mind a car would have to do 3 laps, the out-lap, the quali lap and the in-lap. All of this was so dragged out, with moments of importance coming in dribs and drabs.

I found the spectacle of qualifying somewhat reduced, whereas now, with more cars on the track with more than one chance to outwit their rivals is much better, similar to how it was prior to 2003.

Give them more tyres to use in Q3, and it'd be amazing. It used to be, when they first introduced the new format, remember? I find it is the tyre rules, and not the qualifying that is the problem.

[Hammer278]

The old 1 hour qualifying format with 12 laps maximum was awesome. After that, the 1 lap shootout of each driver was my favourite (maybe instead of with race fuel load, just tweak that to qualifying load)....the current one is just a watered down version of qual...I don't even find much need to watch Q1, and Q2 rarely has casualties anyway. Q3 is too short, but it feels like the only part of 'qualifying' to me.

[zpetrov]

To be honest, I thought the one-lap shoot-out was crap. Much prefer it now. Just needs a little tweaking with the tyres.

Fair, but why?

I've never understood what people like about Q3 right now. They all still do 1 or 2 laps in many cases. The first 5 minutes is often boring (since literally nothing happens). Then suddenly the last 30 seconds is mayhem on steroids since everyone is crossing the finish line practically at the same time. We don't get to see most drivers actually do their lap since the cameras can't follow them all. We always end up with silly debates about "true" performance because one or two drivers were either caught by yellow flags or "slowed down" by traffic. We have had near-misses in the pit lane due to drivers all scrambling to get out at the exact same time. We often miss interesting things happening during people's laps because the cameras are trained on the finish line so we have to watch it all on replay (meaning we might as well see the results online).

So it's basically exactly the same as the 1-lap quali. The only difference is that they are all out at the same time which produces mayhem and difficulty actually following drivers and their laps.

What good does that do?

And did you hate 1-lap quali due to the stupid fuel rules, which forced people to start on race loads, making performance comparisons difficult?

My idea is NOT to have that again. I have no interest in having that mess again.

I just found the one-lap shoot-outs a bit drawn out and boring. Bear in mind a car would have to do 3 laps, the out-lap, the quali lap and the in-lap. All of this was so dragged out, with moments of importance coming in dribs and drabs.

I found the spectacle of qualifying somewhat reduced, whereas now, with more cars on the track with more than one chance to outwit their rivals is much better, similar to how it was prior to 2003.

Give them more tyres to use in Q3, and it'd be amazing. It used to be, when they first introduced the new format, remember? I find it is the tyre rules, and not the qualifying that is the problem.

Well that's all fair.

I can see how there is more "action" packed in a much shorter amount of time in Q3.

But bear in mind that I am talking about only the Top 10 drivers doing a shoot-out, not the entire field. Also, the out-lap coincides with the previous driver's flying lap, so we won't actually have to watch each driver drive around like that.

I suspect the old one-lap shootout may have seemed boring in part because we had to watch tons of backmarkers dragging around the track for a while. In my idea, all those guys are knocked out in the current Q1/Q2, which I feel helps retain some of the action when the backmarkers are involved.

[Ferrari man 009]

1 Lap qualy is boring, if a guy gets held up/ spoiled by yellows in Q3 then that's their fault!

[LRW]

1 Lap qualy is boring, if a guy gets held up/ spoiled by yellows in Q3 then that's their fault!

How is it THEIR fault if they have yellows...?

[Denthúl]

Let's just ditch the current tyre regs. No limited numbers, no having to use both compounds in the race, no starting on your fastest qualifying tyre from Q3 etc.

[LRW]

One thing Ive always thought is, they should be given racing tyres and quali tyres. Then you wouldnt get the midpack guys, that have managed to get into Q3, just sitting in the garage, just to save a pair for the race. It ruins Q3...

[racechick]

I like this system we have now. it gives drivers a chance to get a banker in, then to really go for pole. As has been said, up to driver and team to find clear track, it's the same for all. Would like to see quali tyres used all through quali with all drivers being able to select what they start the race on. I found single driver on track quali really boring, to the extent that at Silverstone one year I thought " sod this, I'm not paying to come and watch this, I'll watch quali from the Jordan factory" they had big screens and I reckoned there'd be more atmosphere there and g it was free. Anyway, having booked a ticket for only race day I got an email from Silverstone saying I could have a three day pass for the same price. this was the start of them offering the three day cheap deals. so I think a whole lot of people had decided not to pay for tickets for quali and Silverstone was worried about empty grandstands for quali . That's my theory anyway.