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[darwin dali]

They feel he's abandoning them, he feels abandoned from the team, the tension rises, it's a normal thing.

exactly! and when this happens in all relationshiops as we all know from simply being human beings....peoples allegiances change and its very easy to make decisions based on emotion which in this case could simply be the idea of having Jenson as the current world campion driving for them next season or it might actually be that reason plus a little bit of spite too. Its a possibility and to say it isn't a possibility is garbage.

Jenson is not the current world champion.

But it is fishy alright...right after Lewis switches allegiance, he has been slower than Button in Practice both in Suzuka and here. Ok, he was fast in P1 but that seems to have gone out the window now.

LOL thats right he is not a current world champion yet....but my whole point is based on having a current world world champion driving for you next season....so if he wins the title this season he will be the current world champion next season.

If he or McLaren even THINKS Button could win the WDC this season, they're even dumber than I thought.

Well the smart thing to do would be to back Hamilton 100% right? doesn't look like thats happening to me

Martin Whitmarsh made a big speech about (we got 6 races to go and the aim is for Lewis to win all 6)...this was pre Suzuka. Then comes Suzuka, and Lewis has a 'rear suspension issue' which they could not sort out during whole of qualifying, or race...rather, they find out days later. Then now comes Korea, first practice where everyone does a shakedown with the new updates, Lewis is fastest...then comes Practice 2 after some tinkering around and he's suddenly nowhere again.

If this continues into Qualifying and he qualifies behind Button again, there's some serious sh*t going on behind the scenes at McLaren.

Oh Hammer, how old are you actually? Do you really believe that? Just except it, Lewis aint as good as you think, and next year he is moving to a mediocre team. LOL.

A bit harsh

[Neo]

yeah...i've given my 2 cents for today, Lets wait and see what happens tomorrow, personally i hope to see a huge increase in the performance of that car come qualifying but after P2 i highly doubt its gonna happen.

[vaptin]

First of all, you can't really storm a practice session, the times aren't indicators of pace. I don't really have the statistics, but I've never seen or heard about a correlation with topping the times for one lap on Friday, and final race position.

Redbull not always cosy too, heck, I'll add in Turkey 2010 and Vettel's loopy gesture, and the safety car drive through with Vettel waving his fists around, but the drivers have signed new contracts, and they seem to quite quickly move back into focus on racing. The settlement and cooling down period is different to Lewis's, his issues seem to drag on for longer.

By professional, I'm talking about the ethos, keeping yourself respectable, discussing things in private, trying to remain calm etc. Lewis really is far more controversial, due to his actions than Jenson and Perez have been, fair enough it's not entirely a fair comparison with Perez who has had less spotlight. Button has moaned about the lack of grip, but it's not that bad, when the team let him down with reliability problems he takes it reasonably well, he celebrates when things go well, he does stick to the facts, but it is less accusatory, more factual when things go wrong than with Lewis.

But look at Lewis's record, the whole twitter thing, "is it because I'm black", there's more too, in his time as a teammate to Jenson, I don't think it is surprising the McLaren team members find themselves liking Jenson more. They even liked Hekki, gave him loads of time, but he was unacceptably slow.

[Neo]

Here's the thing. What if they're not backing Button over Hamilton. What if, you know, Lewis is just having setup issues?

Same as if they are backing Button "What if?" is my point exactly....to completely disregard the possibility is idiocy, naivety or even blind disregard against anything Lewis Hamilton perhaps.

!
Neo, there's been a hell of a lot of naivety going on for the past two years regarding the McLaren situation.

its debatable though arguments can be made either way...for me personally the switch to Mercedes is the final nail in the coffin.

[vaptin]

Always someone elses fault, never Lewis's. . . it was like this last year with Massa and the other on-track incidents, Lewis was the one with all the penalties, but no, the stewards all hated him, Jenson could never match Lewis fairly, he has to have undermined him, is Lewis happy? I'm sure he isn't, but he's easily upset, it's not that big an indicator.

McLaren are still spending loads of time and money on setting up his car, giving him upgrades and the like, they have no advantage in slowing him down.

Personally I think the relationship is strained, but it has been for a long time, his race engineer always sounds cautious when talking to Lewis, like he doesn't want to upset him, I think McLaren will miss Lewis's speed, but they are probably looking forward to having someone far more professional joining the team. Lewis has been frustrated with Mclaren, but I think it applies the other way too, they want a greater sense of loyalty and faith from Lewis that he doesn't need to react so strongly when things go wrong, I think leaving will hopefully be a fresh start for both. I bet with a different driver in Perez, Mclaren find making stragety decisions, helping him setup far more easier, and we'll have to see if Mercedes are still suffering from tyre degradation and racing to get into Q2 next year, and how long Lewis will want to give them.

Ferrari have made far more mistakes than Mclaren, but Alonso and Massa have consistently stuck with supporting the team publicly, although Webber and Vettel have made their feelings clear quite a few times, but it never seems to linger as long as it does with Hamilton, plus the nature of the complaints are different.

Back to this raced, I think it is Hamilton's mentality that is the question, not McLaren's, but maybe he is finding they are caring less about him now.

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No one is backing Jenson over Lewis, you guys are the only ones saying it, I've still failed to see evidence of this.

Don't generalize when you aim that comment about people believing its always someone elses fault except Lewis's...many of us have seen the errors that Lewis has made in that car(especially last season) and out of the car more recently with his bumbling twitter fiasco. Right now we are talking about a guy who was the fastest on the track for 3 out of 4 races prior to anouncing hs move to merc and prior to Japan where a dodgy component in the rear suspension that has an effect on the balance of the car during set up caused him to get it completely wrong. Now today in P1 Hamilton was fastest 1:39.1 on 22 lap used softs that he had locked up multiple times then in P2 he could only manage 1:39.7 (he commented afterwards that apparently all they did to change the car was a slight rear ride height adjstment which he said "is nothing" ) Vettel was fastest- 1.38.8 on brand new super softs on a rubbered in track so it stands to good reason that questions should be asked about where that pace suddenly went.....as for the reasons why they would back Button now instead of Lewis? I've given my personal view on that countless times and referenced my acknowledgement about how important the WCC points are.

If they were going to sabotage him, why in the break between P1 and P2?

I'm supposed to have the answer to that? maybe they didn't think he would be so fast right off the bat and so decided to pull him back a peg or 2....all i know is that he was on it in P1 and the car was responding very well to him then all of a sudden n P2 his feeling for the car vanished.

That makes no sense though, it just gives them more work to do. If they wanted him slow, they would have done it with the car brought into P1. He can always demand to go back to P1 setup then, and complain publicly if the team don't let him, can't he (this is hypothetical, I make no admissions this is the case).

[racechick]

I'm gob smacked really. you're talking about professional people in a high profile job not supporting their top driver properly because thy don't like him, or don't understand him or they have a different culture to him. Im sorry but that just beggars belief!!

[Denthúl]

Here's the thing. What if they're not backing Button over Hamilton. What if, you know, Lewis is just having setup issues?

Same as if they are backing Button "What if?" is my point exactly....to completely disregard the possibility is idiocy, naivety or even blind disregard against anything Lewis Hamilton perhaps.

!
Neo, there's been a hell of a lot of naivety going on for the past two years regarding the McLaren situation.

More like rabid paranoia*.

* For the record, I'm not saying that Whitmarsh doesn't like Button more, but they've been given equal equipment and opportunities throughout and Lewis has failed to dominate as people assumed he would.

[racechick]

Here's the thing. What if they're not backing Button over Hamilton. What if, you know, Lewis is just having setup issues?

Same as if they are backing Button "What if?" is my point exactly....to completely disregard the possibility is idiocy, naivety or even blind disregard against anything Lewis Hamilton perhaps.

!
Neo, there's been a hell of a lot of naivety going on for the past two years regarding the McLaren situation.

More like rabid paranoia*.

* For the record, I'm not saying that Whitmarsh doesn't like Button more, but they've been given equal equipment and opportunities throughout and Lewis has failed to dominate as people assumed he would.

nope. Nativity.

[vaptin]

I'm gob smacked really. you're talking about professional people in a high profile job not supporting their top driver properly because thy don't like him, or don't understand him or they have a different culture to him. Im sorry but that just beggars belief!!

You changed sides ? Yay, but they still pay Lewis, they still have sponsors and WCC points, Lewis is still in front of Jenson for the WDC, they still have plenty of resources, it seems to me that they would want to support him. It hasn't always been nice-nice, but actively slowing the car down makes no sense.

--
Anyway, I've still yet to be convinced really, there are loads of explanations for poor pace, and when all else is equal, the simplest explanation is the likeliest one.

[Hammer278]

They feel he's abandoning them, he feels abandoned from the team, the tension rises, it's a normal thing.

exactly! and when this happens in all relationshiops as we all know from simply being human beings....peoples allegiances change and its very easy to make decisions based on emotion which in this case could simply be the idea of having Jenson as the current world campion driving for them next season or it might actually be that reason plus a little bit of spite too. Its a possibility and to say it isn't a possibility is garbage.

Jenson is not the current world champion.

But it is fishy alright...right after Lewis switches allegiance, he has been slower than Button in Practice both in Suzuka and here. Ok, he was fast in P1 but that seems to have gone out the window now.

LOL thats right he is not a current world champion yet....but my whole point is based on having a current world world champion driving for you next season....so if he wins the title this season he will be the current world champion next season.

If he or McLaren even THINKS Button could win the WDC this season, they're even dumber than I thought.

Well the smart thing to do would be to back Hamilton 100% right? doesn't look like thats happening to me

Martin Whitmarsh made a big speech about (we got 6 races to go and the aim is for Lewis to win all 6)...this was pre Suzuka. Then comes Suzuka, and Lewis has a 'rear suspension issue' which they could not sort out during whole of qualifying, or race...rather, they find out days later. Then now comes Korea, first practice where everyone does a shakedown with the new updates, Lewis is fastest...then comes Practice 2 after some tinkering around and he's suddenly nowhere again.

If this continues into Qualifying and he qualifies behind Button again, there's some serious sh*t going on behind the scenes at McLaren.

Oh Hammer, how old are you actually? Do you really believe that? Just except it, Lewis aint as good as you think, and next year he is moving to a mediocre team. LOL.

Thanks for the crap contribution Bulletproof, always a pleasure to see your meaningless posts. I don't believe in any theory at this stage, as stated I will wait for some more of the weekend to get underway.

[racechick]

I'm gob smacked really. you're talking about professional people in a high profile job not supporting their top driver properly because thy don't like him, or don't understand him or they have a different culture to him. Im sorry but that just beggars belief!!

You changed sides ? .

No,why did you say I'd changed sides? Lewis has done nothing that would stop me giving him my full support? still the best most exciting driver on the grid. no, not changed sides.

[andrew]

They feel he's abandoning them, he feels abandoned from the team, the tension rises, it's a normal thing.

exactly! and when this happens in all relationshiops as we all know from simply being human beings....peoples allegiances change and its very easy to make decisions based on emotion which in this case could simply be the idea of having Jenson as the current world campion driving for them next season or it might actually be that reason plus a little bit of spite too. Its a possibility and to say it isn't a possibility is garbage.

Jenson is not the current world champion.

But it is fishy alright...right after Lewis switches allegiance, he has been slower than Button in Practice both in Suzuka and here. Ok, he was fast in P1 but that seems to have gone out the window now.

LOL thats right he is not a current world champion yet....but my whole point is based on having a current world world champion driving for you next season....so if he wins the title this season he will be the current world champion next season.

If he or McLaren even THINKS Button could win the WDC this season, they're even dumber than I thought.

Well the smart thing to do would be to back Hamilton 100% right? doesn't look like thats happening to me

Martin Whitmarsh made a big speech about (we got 6 races to go and the aim is for Lewis to win all 6)...this was pre Suzuka. Then comes Suzuka, and Lewis has a 'rear suspension issue' which they could not sort out during whole of qualifying, or race...rather, they find out days later. Then now comes Korea, first practice where everyone does a shakedown with the new updates, Lewis is fastest...then comes Practice 2 after some tinkering around and he's suddenly nowhere again.

If this continues into Qualifying and he qualifies behind Button again, there's some serious sh*t going on behind the scenes at McLaren.

Oh Hammer, how old are you actually? Do you really believe that? Just except it, Lewis aint as good as you think, and next year he is moving to a mediocre team. LOL.

A bit harsh

What?! Asking someone their age is considered harsh now?

[1Lemon]

So much hate in this thread, sure you can like a driver and have a preference, but how can you all hate on someone so much it's like they've done worse things than Hitler.

"BUTTON'S SO EVIL THE TREACHERY IN MCCLAREN KILLED MY WIFE!"
"HAMILTON'S SO EVIL HE MAKES STALIN LOOK LIKE THE CRAZY LOCAL DOWN THE PUB!"
"FFS KARTHIKEYAN WIN A RACE ALREADY!"

It's childish and doesn't get us anywhere...

[LRW]

So much hate in this thread........<snip>

It isn't just this thread, is spread through the boards like a silent cancer, and the diagnosis is Terminal......

[andrew]

Aye but what can ye do?

It's not unique to this site. It's why I left my previous main stomping ground and only rarely frequent another.