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[vaptin]

It's not really equality that has been their problem this year is it? Hamilton (and the car!) have been sufficiently fast, the problem has been mistakes with pitstops and reliability, which has pretty much affected both drivers equally.

[f1boy]

McLaren aren't going to win the constructors either. This is what happens when you let someone like Jenson think that he's the main man. He isn't and next year will out him for what he is.

A good driver, but not in the same league as Alonso, Seb, Lewis and Kimi.

[vaptin]

McLaren aren't going to win the constructors either. This is what happens when you let someone like Jenson think that he's the main man. He isn't and next year will out him for what he is.

A good driver, but not in the same league as Alonso, Seb, Lewis and Kimi.

I don't think prioritising Lewis would have got them anywhere since he and Jenson have been team-mates though, the McLaren wasn't fast enough in 2010 and 2011, McLaren did well to get second from Ferrari, which Jenson did play a big part in (along with Massa being slow).

[andrew]

Doesn't matter if they are going to win the Constructors or not. Any teams priority is to get as far up the Constructors as possible and get as much cash as possible for the following year and that is exactly what McLaren have been doing.

McLaren aren't going to win the constructors either. This is what happens when you let someone like Jenson think that he's the main man. He isn't and next year will out him for what he is.

A good driver, but not in the same league as Alonso, Seb, Lewis and Kimi.

I don't think prioritising Lewis would have got them anywhere since he and Jenson have been team-mates though, the McLaren wasn't fast enough in 2010 and 2011, McLaren did well to get second from Ferrari, which Jenson did play a big part in (along with Massa being slow).

[vlad]

I think that certain Hamilton fans would like Jenson to be his B.I.T.C.H.

[Neo]

Always someone elses fault, never Lewis's. . . it was like this last year with Massa and the other on-track incidents, Lewis was the one with all the penalties, but no, the stewards all hated him, Jenson could never match Lewis fairly, he has to have undermined him, is Lewis happy? I'm sure he isn't, but he's easily upset, it's not that big an indicator.

McLaren are still spending loads of time and money on setting up his car, giving him upgrades and the like, they have no advantage in slowing him down.

Personally I think the relationship is strained, but it has been for a long time, his race engineer always sounds cautious when talking to Lewis, like he doesn't want to upset him, I think McLaren will miss Lewis's speed, but they are probably looking forward to having someone far more professional joining the team. Lewis has been frustrated with Mclaren, but I think it applies the other way too, they want a greater sense of loyalty and faith from Lewis that he doesn't need to react so strongly when things go wrong, I think leaving will hopefully be a fresh start for both. I bet with a different driver in Perez, Mclaren find making stragety decisions, helping him setup far more easier, and we'll have to see if Mercedes are still suffering from tyre degradation and racing to get into Q2 next year, and how long Lewis will want to give them.

Ferrari have made far more mistakes than Mclaren, but Alonso and Massa have consistently stuck with supporting the team publicly, although Webber and Vettel have made their feelings clear quite a few times, but it never seems to linger as long as it does with Hamilton, plus the nature of the complaints are different.

Back to this raced, I think it is Hamilton's mentality that is the question, not McLaren's, but maybe he is finding they are caring less about him now.

--
No one is backing Jenson over Lewis, you guys are the only ones saying it, I've still failed to see evidence of this.

Don't generalize when you aim that comment about people believing its always someone elses fault except Lewis's...many of us have seen the errors that Lewis has made in that car(especially last season) and out of the car more recently with his bumbling twitter fiasco. Right now we are talking about a guy who was the fastest on the track for 3 out of 4 races prior to anouncing hs move to merc and prior to Japan where a dodgy component in the rear suspension that has an effect on the balance of the car during set up caused him to get it completely wrong. Now today in P1 Hamilton was fastest 1:39.1 on 22 lap used softs that he had locked up multiple times then in P2 he could only manage 1:39.7 (he commented afterwards that apparently all they did to change the car was a slight rear ride height adjstment which he said "is nothing" ) Vettel was fastest- 1.38.8 on brand new super softs on a rubbered in track so it stands to good reason that questions should be asked about where that pace suddenly went.....as for the reasons why they would back Button now instead of Lewis? I've given my personal view on that countless times and referenced my acknowledgement about how important the WCC points are.

[Denthúl]

Here's the thing. What if they're not backing Button over Hamilton. What if, you know, Lewis is just having setup issues?

[andrew]

Here's the thing. What if they're not backing Button over Hamilton. What if, you know, Lewis is just having setup issues?

You mean he has no grip?

[vaptin]

Always someone elses fault, never Lewis's. . . it was like this last year with Massa and the other on-track incidents, Lewis was the one with all the penalties, but no, the stewards all hated him, Jenson could never match Lewis fairly, he has to have undermined him, is Lewis happy? I'm sure he isn't, but he's easily upset, it's not that big an indicator.

McLaren are still spending loads of time and money on setting up his car, giving him upgrades and the like, they have no advantage in slowing him down.

Personally I think the relationship is strained, but it has been for a long time, his race engineer always sounds cautious when talking to Lewis, like he doesn't want to upset him, I think McLaren will miss Lewis's speed, but they are probably looking forward to having someone far more professional joining the team. Lewis has been frustrated with Mclaren, but I think it applies the other way too, they want a greater sense of loyalty and faith from Lewis that he doesn't need to react so strongly when things go wrong, I think leaving will hopefully be a fresh start for both. I bet with a different driver in Perez, Mclaren find making stragety decisions, helping him setup far more easier, and we'll have to see if Mercedes are still suffering from tyre degradation and racing to get into Q2 next year, and how long Lewis will want to give them.

Ferrari have made far more mistakes than Mclaren, but Alonso and Massa have consistently stuck with supporting the team publicly, although Webber and Vettel have made their feelings clear quite a few times, but it never seems to linger as long as it does with Hamilton, plus the nature of the complaints are different.

Back to this raced, I think it is Hamilton's mentality that is the question, not McLaren's, but maybe he is finding they are caring less about him now.

--
No one is backing Jenson over Lewis, you guys are the only ones saying it, I've still failed to see evidence of this.

Don't generalize when you aim that comment about people believing its always someone elses fault except Lewis's...many of us have seen the errors that Lewis has made in that car(especially last season) and out of the car more recently with his bumbling twitter fiasco. Right now we are talking about a guy who was the fastest on the track for 3 out of 4 races prior to anouncing hs move to merc and prior to Japan where a dodgy component in the rear suspension that has an effect on the balance of the car during set up caused him to get it completely wrong. Now today in P1 Hamilton was fastest 1:39.1 on 22 lap used softs that he had locked up multiple times then in P2 he could only manage 1:39.7 (he commented afterwards that apparently all they did to change the car was a slight rear ride height adjstment which he said "is nothing" ) Vettel was fastest- 1.38.8 on brand new super softs on a rubbered in track so it stands to good reason that questions should be asked about where that pace suddenly went.....as for the reasons why they would back Button now instead of Lewis? I've given my personal view on that countless times and referenced my acknowledgement about how important the WCC points are.

If they were going to sabotage him, why in the break between P1 and P2?

[Neo]

Here's the thing. What if they're not backing Button over Hamilton. What if, you know, Lewis is just having setup issues?

Same as if they are backing Button "What if?" is my point exactly....to completely disregard the possibility is idiocy, naivety or even blind disregard against anything Lewis Hamilton perhaps.

[racechick]

Always someone elses fault, never Lewis's. . . it was like this last year with Massa and the other on-track incidents, Lewis was the one with all the penalties, but no, the stewards all hated him, Jenson could never match Lewis fairly, he has to have undermined him, is Lewis happy? I'm sure he isn't, but he's easily upset, it's not that big an indicator.

McLaren are still spending loads of time and money on setting up his car, giving him upgrades and the like, they have no advantage in slowing him down.

Personally I think the relationship is strained, but it has been for a long time, his race engineer always sounds cautious when talking to Lewis, like he doesn't want to upset him, I think McLaren will miss Lewis's speed, but they are probably looking forward to having someone far more professional joining the team. Lewis has been frustrated with Mclaren, but I think it applies the other way too, they want a greater sense of loyalty and faith from Lewis that he doesn't need to react so strongly when things go wrong, I think leaving will hopefully be a fresh start for both. I bet with a different driver in Perez, Mclaren find making stragety decisions, helping him setup far more easier, and we'll have to see if Mercedes are still suffering from tyre degradation and racing to get into Q2 next year, and how long Lewis will want to give them.

Ferrari have made far more mistakes than Mclaren, but Alonso and Massa have consistently stuck with supporting the team publicly, although Webber and Vettel have made their feelings clear quite a few times, but it never seems to linger as long as it does with Hamilton, plus the nature of the complaints are different.


Back to this raced, I think it is Hamilton's mentality that is the question, not McLaren's, but maybe he is finding they are caring less about him now.

--
No one is backing Jenson over Lewis, you guys are the only ones saying it, I've still failed to see evidence of this.

Lewis always puts his hand up when it's his fault, and he doesn't whine and moan half as much as Button. yes he's emotional and reacts so call that a fault if you like.
I don't accept your argue ent that Lewis is not professional, his job is everything to him and you have no evidence that the incoming Perez or the incumbent Button(with his chequered history) are any more professional.
You site the harmony at Red Bull. It wasn't. so harmonious at Silverstone the year Vettel was given Webers rear wing, in fact Webber may not have tweeted his displeasure but he broadcast it all over Silverstone and the BBC.
coming back to the comment that its never Lewis' fault. that might hold water if he came out on a Friday struggling, but the past two Fridays he's come out storming, the class of the field, only to have his car altered to put him a third way down the grid. I thought the idea was that the engineers improved the car between practice sessions( like they did the last two Fridays for Button) not put it 8 places back!!

[Neo]

Always someone elses fault, never Lewis's. . . it was like this last year with Massa and the other on-track incidents, Lewis was the one with all the penalties, but no, the stewards all hated him, Jenson could never match Lewis fairly, he has to have undermined him, is Lewis happy? I'm sure he isn't, but he's easily upset, it's not that big an indicator.

McLaren are still spending loads of time and money on setting up his car, giving him upgrades and the like, they have no advantage in slowing him down.

Personally I think the relationship is strained, but it has been for a long time, his race engineer always sounds cautious when talking to Lewis, like he doesn't want to upset him, I think McLaren will miss Lewis's speed, but they are probably looking forward to having someone far more professional joining the team. Lewis has been frustrated with Mclaren, but I think it applies the other way too, they want a greater sense of loyalty and faith from Lewis that he doesn't need to react so strongly when things go wrong, I think leaving will hopefully be a fresh start for both. I bet with a different driver in Perez, Mclaren find making stragety decisions, helping him setup far more easier, and we'll have to see if Mercedes are still suffering from tyre degradation and racing to get into Q2 next year, and how long Lewis will want to give them.

Ferrari have made far more mistakes than Mclaren, but Alonso and Massa have consistently stuck with supporting the team publicly, although Webber and Vettel have made their feelings clear quite a few times, but it never seems to linger as long as it does with Hamilton, plus the nature of the complaints are different.

Back to this raced, I think it is Hamilton's mentality that is the question, not McLaren's, but maybe he is finding they are caring less about him now.

--
No one is backing Jenson over Lewis, you guys are the only ones saying it, I've still failed to see evidence of this.

Don't generalize when you aim that comment about people believing its always someone elses fault except Lewis's...many of us have seen the errors that Lewis has made in that car(especially last season) and out of the car more recently with his bumbling twitter fiasco. Right now we are talking about a guy who was the fastest on the track for 3 out of 4 races prior to anouncing hs move to merc and prior to Japan where a dodgy component in the rear suspension that has an effect on the balance of the car during set up caused him to get it completely wrong. Now today in P1 Hamilton was fastest 1:39.1 on 22 lap used softs that he had locked up multiple times then in P2 he could only manage 1:39.7 (he commented afterwards that apparently all they did to change the car was a slight rear ride height adjstment which he said "is nothing" ) Vettel was fastest- 1.38.8 on brand new super softs on a rubbered in track so it stands to good reason that questions should be asked about where that pace suddenly went.....as for the reasons why they would back Button now instead of Lewis? I've given my personal view on that countless times and referenced my acknowledgement about how important the WCC points are.

If they were going to sabotage him, why in the break between P1 and P2?

I'm supposed to have the answer to that? maybe they didn't think he would be so fast right off the bat and so decided to pull him back a peg or 2....all i know is that he was on it in P1 and the car was responding very well to him then all of a sudden n P2 his feeling for the car vanished.

[Denthúl]

Here's the thing. What if they're not backing Button over Hamilton. What if, you know, Lewis is just having setup issues?

You mean he has no grip?

Oh, you.

[racechick]

Here's the thing. What if they're not backing Button over Hamilton. What if, you know, Lewis is just having setup issues?

Same as if they are backing Button "What if?" is my point exactly....to completely disregard the possibility is idiocy, naivety or even blind disregard against anything Lewis Hamilton perhaps.

!
Neo, there's been a hell of a lot of naivety going on for the past two years regarding the McLaren situation.

[Bulletproof]

They feel he's abandoning them, he feels abandoned from the team, the tension rises, it's a normal thing.

exactly! and when this happens in all relationshiops as we all know from simply being human beings....peoples allegiances change and its very easy to make decisions based on emotion which in this case could simply be the idea of having Jenson as the current world campion driving for them next season or it might actually be that reason plus a little bit of spite too. Its a possibility and to say it isn't a possibility is garbage.

Jenson is not the current world champion.

But it is fishy alright...right after Lewis switches allegiance, he has been slower than Button in Practice both in Suzuka and here. Ok, he was fast in P1 but that seems to have gone out the window now.

LOL thats right he is not a current world champion yet....but my whole point is based on having a current world world champion driving for you next season....so if he wins the title this season he will be the current world champion next season.

If he or McLaren even THINKS Button could win the WDC this season, they're even dumber than I thought.

Well the smart thing to do would be to back Hamilton 100% right? doesn't look like thats happening to me

Martin Whitmarsh made a big speech about (we got 6 races to go and the aim is for Lewis to win all 6)...this was pre Suzuka. Then comes Suzuka, and Lewis has a 'rear suspension issue' which they could not sort out during whole of qualifying, or race...rather, they find out days later. Then now comes Korea, first practice where everyone does a shakedown with the new updates, Lewis is fastest...then comes Practice 2 after some tinkering around and he's suddenly nowhere again.

If this continues into Qualifying and he qualifies behind Button again, there's some serious sh*t going on behind the scenes at McLaren.

Oh Hammer, how old are you actually? Do you really believe that? Just except it, Lewis aint as good as you think, and next year he is moving to a mediocre team. LOL.