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[Hammer278]

Let's face it. McLaren isn't going to do much next year with Jenson as number 1.
They have no need to hide their data, as they won't be challenging for a championship anyway.

Perez will be there, McLaren is still a threat for wins but yeah....Championship I think not, since they only exist for race wins.

I dunno, I get the feeling that in taking on Perez they've taken on someone to play the team game which will allow them to have a no. 1 driver and still have a 2nd driver good enough to take points off others. Lewis might've been BSing but he seemed to be suggesting Mclaren have something good for next year and if that's the case then they won't be wanting to throw that away with squabbles between the drivers.

This doesn't make sense...Perez is no no.2 driver from his performance and I believe in McLarens philosophy about getting the '2 best available drivers', sadly for them they actually think Button is one of them. But I expect Perez to beat Button next year, if McLaren wanted a slouch to pick up points and help Button, they could've done a lot better (worse) with their pick.

[What's Burning?]

I deleted my recording before I had a chance to go back an really look at the start again but do you guys feel that the Kimi/Alonso situation would not have happened had the Webber/Grosjean situation not taken place? I know Rosberg/Senna were further back and it may all have been a snow ball effect, but I'm not really sure if it was. Or even where the bobble first started.

[racechick]

i thought Alonso was spinning before Grosjean hit Webber. But Im not sure.

[LRW]

I deleted my recording before I had a chance to go back an really look at the start again but do you guys feel that the Kimi/Alonso situation would not have happened had the Webber/Grosjean situation not taken place? I know Rosberg/Senna were further back and it may all have been a snow ball effect, but I'm not really sure if it was. Or even where the bobble first started.

Im sure the Kimi/Alonso situation happened BEFORE the Webber/Grosjean situation. So the latter couldnt have had an effect...?

[vlad]

Yes, it was at least 20-30m earlier.

[What's Burning?]

So then Webber was avoiding Kimi correction and that's what caused him to veer? Just don't know if we're looking at two separate events of if they're connected.

[LRW]

So then Webber was avoiding Kimi correction and that's what caused him to veer? Just don't know if we're looking at two separate events of if they're connected.

Im pretty sure Webber was just driving, and breaking - dont remember him veering. Just Grosjean too busy minding the Sauber(?) on his left, and not watching the speed of webber infront.

[What's Burning?]

I remember Webber definitely making a move to the right, encroaching on Grosjean quite a bit but nothing dangerous or "unavoidable" and it looked as if Grosjean just simply didn't react to it at all. So I thought that Webber's move may have been in avoidance of something and perhaps that was the Kimi/Alonso exchange.

Oh well... I usually keep a race for a few days just for things like this.

[LRW]

I remember Webber definitely making a move to the right, encroaching on Grosjean quite a bit but nothing dangerous or "unavoidable" and it looked as if Grosjean just simply didn't react to it at all. So I thought that Webber's move may have been in avoidance of something and perhaps that was the Kimi/Alonso exchange.

Oh well... I usually keep a race for a few days just for things like this.

I was sure webber was fully infront of Grosjean??

[What's Burning?]

I remember Webber definitely making a move to the right, encroaching on Grosjean quite a bit but nothing dangerous or "unavoidable" and it looked as if Grosjean just simply didn't react to it at all. So I thought that Webber's move may have been in avoidance of something and perhaps that was the Kimi/Alonso exchange.

Oh well... I usually keep a race for a few days just for things like this.

I was sure webber was fully infront of Grosjean??

He was, by at least 3/4 of a car lenght. But I remember Grosjean having a about a car's width to his right, but just didn't move there to compensate for Webber's move.

[vlad]

[youtube]v7HhefopHzg[/youtube]


Way, waaaaaaaaaaay before...

[What's Burning?]

[youtube]v7HhefopHzg[/youtube]


Way, waaaaaaaaaaay before...

Wow... way before indeed. You're a hell of a lot better finding YouTube clips than me, I've spent the last ten minutes or so poking around. Thank you. You can clearly see the Webber/Grosjean incident as well.

[vlad]

NP, mate! Always there to help clear the situation!
Btw, incidents were NOT involved.

[LRW]

I remember Webber definitely making a move to the right, encroaching on Grosjean quite a bit but nothing dangerous or "unavoidable" and it looked as if Grosjean just simply didn't react to it at all. So I thought that Webber's move may have been in avoidance of something and perhaps that was the Kimi/Alonso exchange.

Oh well... I usually keep a race for a few days just for things like this.

I was sure webber was fully infront of Grosjean??

He was, by at least 3/4 of a car lenght. But I remember Grosjean having a about a car's width to his right, but just didn't move there to compensate for Webber's move.

This is a screenshot, taken from BBCiplayer, just before the crash. After this Grosjean just breaks to late and goes right into the side of Webber as he takes the corner.

MWRG.gif

[What's Burning?]

Okay, but looking at the video it's also possible that Perez clipped Webber the same way Kimi clipped Alonso. Because Webber's spins more than turns.