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[Hammer278]

Good post!!
Where do you think it all started going wrong for McLaren?

When Bruce died.

If I was forced to think back....I'd say the day they kicked DC out for JPM. Since then, McLaren has made a few crappy decisions and gone steadily downhill. Lewis is definitely not one of these decisions though.

[racechick]

NNNNOOOOOOO!!! JPM was a good choice!

[Hammer278]

NNNNOOOOOOO!!! JPM was a good choice!

Yeah...there's the first thing which we will never agree on.

[racechick]

NNNNOOOOOOO!!! JPM was a good choice!

Yeah...there's the first thing which we will never agree on.

I dont think there's many...but thats definately one.

[andrew]

NNNNOOOOOOO!!! JPM was a good choice!

He was a good choice for the catering department. Never have they sold so much food!

[LewEngBridewell]

NNNNOOOOOOO!!! JPM was a good choice!

He was a good choice for the catering department. Never have they sold so much food!

[Jabberwocky]

Newey left at the same sort of time as DC

[darwin dali]

NNNNOOOOOOO!!! JPM was a good choice!

He was a good choice for the catering department. Never have they sold so much food!

[nikon133]

Good post!!
Where do you think it all started going wrong for McLaren?

When they made young Lewis equal to Alonso in his first F1 season ever.

Young driver, regardless raw talent, needs time to mature. Like some complex dishes needing time to cook on slow fire, otherwise overcook on the outside but remains raw on the inside. You don't want to elevate young driver to celebrity that quick; his expectations will skyrocket and he will never be realistic or satisfied in that environment.

I think this will do good for both Lewis and Mclaren, to break off unhealthy relation they have jump started before its time. I hope McL will not make the same mistake with this new youngster Peres.

I agree with part of your statement. This will be good for Lewis.
But the bit about not giving both drivers equal status-don't agree with that. He earnt equal status by being as fast. Perez also should be equal. Number one status should come about by who performs best on the track not on what the team mandate at the beginning of the year.
I think part of the problem was McLaren never really stopped thinking of Lewis as the young teanager they nurtured.

I think psychologigal problem (if any) is more likely to be on Lewis than on McLaren side.

I also think most young drivers who got in competitive seat (and equal opportunity) end up having more than average number of avoidable accidents, compared to drivers left to mature before being dropped into the heat; think Pastor, think Domain. Think younger Lewis. It is not about what drivers want. It is about what is good for them.

Is it really much different than, say, fighter pilots? Do they get to fly real missions right after introduced to their F16/F18 seats? Or do they fly hundreds of training and simulation missions before seeing real action? Talent is important, but there is no substitute for skill, experience, finesse that comes with time and maturity.

There is just no way driver who got his first F1 seat molded should be let to compete for title. No one is THAT good. And it is not good for the team not to tame raw talents.

At the end, driver is part of the team, not the other way around.

Just my humble opinion. We both know we are not going to agree on this one.

[nikon133]

Wellsaid, None knows for sure the true reasons of why he left, but apparently he didn't like ''equal treatment'' afterall, I admit that he deserved a little bit more attention than Button, but then again Alonso deserved more attention than Lewis at his first year in F1...
But they treated the rookie as a champion... and he should at least be thankful of that...
I hope he finds what he seeks in Merc, although it is a downgrade. and I really hope Perez will be the next big talent of F1.

Err..more like NO they did not treat Lewis as a WDC in his rookie year. They were equal, and Alonso was the one crying for No.1 status (like he does everywhere, why do you think he's finally at peace?) but Ron Dennis refused. Next came the 'toys out of the pram' with Crybaby selling out McLaren to the FIA for their unethical (yet still legal since they did not shoot anyone for the documents!) business practice.

Lewis probably left seeing as McLaren can't even keep themselves in shape when they FINALLY had the best car from Race 1. Their number of mistakes this season was a complete joke to be honest. The fuel debacle in Spain qualifying, the strategic blunders, the sh*t pistops. Fastest pitstops by a few hundredths now, big f'in deal, they lost whole seconds which lost a hell of a lot of points for Lewis in the first few races!

Interesting. Looking at frustration MS had with DNF and general lack of performance, I'd really like to know what Lewis, taking that same MS's seat, thinks his major gain here is, swapping that joke of McLaren for... classic Greek tragedy of Mercedes?

How do you see that Lewis' tweeting of confidential data, by the way? Trying to better Alonso one more time?

Lewis is brilliant driver and I wish him the best, but I believe he was completely missmanaged at McLaren. Probably least his mistake, but huge one on Ron's and Lewis management side.

[Hammer278]

Wellsaid, None knows for sure the true reasons of why he left, but apparently he didn't like ''equal treatment'' afterall, I admit that he deserved a little bit more attention than Button, but then again Alonso deserved more attention than Lewis at his first year in F1...
But they treated the rookie as a champion... and he should at least be thankful of that...
I hope he finds what he seeks in Merc, although it is a downgrade. and I really hope Perez will be the next big talent of F1.

Err..more like NO they did not treat Lewis as a WDC in his rookie year. They were equal, and Alonso was the one crying for No.1 status (like he does everywhere, why do you think he's finally at peace?) but Ron Dennis refused. Next came the 'toys out of the pram' with Crybaby selling out McLaren to the FIA for their unethical (yet still legal since they did not shoot anyone for the documents!) business practice.

Lewis probably left seeing as McLaren can't even keep themselves in shape when they FINALLY had the best car from Race 1. Their number of mistakes this season was a complete joke to be honest. The fuel debacle in Spain qualifying, the strategic blunders, the sh*t pistops. Fastest pitstops by a few hundredths now, big f'in deal, they lost whole seconds which lost a hell of a lot of points for Lewis in the first few races!

Interesting. Looking at frustration MS had with DNF and general lack of performance, I'd really like to know what Lewis, taking that same MS's seat, thinks his major gain here is, swapping that joke of McLaren for... classic Greek tragedy of Mercedes?

How do you see that Lewis' tweeting of confidential data, by the way? Trying to better Alonso one more time?

Lewis is brilliant driver and I wish him the best, but I believe he was completely missmanaged at McLaren. Probably least his mistake, but huge one on Ron's and Lewis management side.

Neither you nor I can say what and how Mercedes is looking in the future since we haven't seen the background of what;s going on. I judge things by what I see, and I see McLaren faltering time and time again in really stupid ways which a supposedly 'top team' which has been around for donkeys age in the sport has no right to do. Mercedes might be utterly dominant come 2014, or a backmarker in 2014, who are we to say? Do you know the workings behind the team? Lewis on the other hand has seen the background and according to Brawn, it is the future which Lewis is excited about not the present. So what's your point here?

Lewis tweeted confidential data of the team in the heat of the moment. He's a guy who wears his heart on his sleeve and this is one of the side effects of his personality. What Alonso did on the other hand was devious and it was pure blackmail, there was nothing impulsive with what he did.

As for your 'mismanaged' theory, I don't really care since it's McLarens problem and they have many issues to sort out anyway.

[racechick]

Nikkon. You're right that this is one we will disagree on. Lewis didnt have many accidents in his rookie year or the two following years and Schumacher the most experienced on the grid has had plenty this year. I say if the Rookie can do it let him do it, dont hamper him. Al rookies are not like Grosjean and Maldonado, if lewis had driven like them he wouldnt have been competing for a title against a double worls champion in his first year.
But something we do agree on, though perhaps not in the same way. McLaren mismanaged Lewis.

[The Second Coming]

Interesting take, RC.

And to the bigger picture, which goes back to what inspired this thread, McLaren continue to demonstrate one of the reasons why Lewis left—can't win Championships with unreliable cars...fast as all blazes but if it doesn't finish, then where's the glory? Here we are in Suzuka and Jenson suffers a 5-grid spot penalty before even turning a wheel due to reliability issues. I promise you, this isn't the last time they will suffer from unreliability before the season is over. Yea, we have that to look forward to.

So new engine regs or no new regs, I believe leaving for AMG was the perfect choice for Lewis. I'm a betting man and I say AMG is going to be a very relevant contender in great part because Lewis is there. Give them the first year together and watch the shift in power on the grid.

I'm just saying...

[racechick]

You say well TeamMcLarenF1

[PartsaS]

All we have now, is personal opinions, and it is a long way till March comes. Somehow after the recent big news I have lost a bit of my interest in this seasons championship, and Jenson's penalty in japan ...WTF I hope Lewis hasn't lost completely his motive to fight till the end of the season.