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[racechick]

Good post!!
Where do you think it all started going wrong for McLaren?

When they made young Lewis equal to Alonso in his first F1 season ever.

Young driver, regardless raw talent, needs time to mature. Like some complex dishes needing time to cook on slow fire, otherwise overcook on the outside but remains raw on the inside. You don't want to elevate young driver to celebrity that quick; his expectations will skyrocket and he will never be realistic or satisfied in that environment.

I think this will do good for both Lewis and Mclaren, to break off unhealthy relation they have jump started before its time. I hope McL will not make the same mistake with this new youngster Peres.

I agree with part of your statement. This will be good for Lewis.
But the bit about not giving both drivers equal status-don't agree with that. He earnt equal status by being as fast. Perez also should be equal. Number one status should come about by who performs best on the track not on what the team mandate at the beginning of the year.
I think part of the problem was McLaren never really stopped thinking of Lewis as the young teanager they nurtured.

[nikon133]

Hill paints an unflattering picture of McLaren


At Mercedes, Hamilton will receive the freedom to capitalise on his own commercial value as well as banking as much as £60million from the three-year contract that has persuaded him to abandon the team that nurtured him from childhood.

'Lewis needed to leave McLaren to stretch his wings,' argued Hill.

Hamilton had become disillusioned with the culture at McLaren defined by company chairman Ron Dennis, who had steered Niki Lauda, Alain Prost, the late Ayrton Senna, and Mika Hakkinen to world championships before grooming Hamilton to stardom.

Despite their success, Lauda, Prost and Senna all felt compelled to break with McLaren, as Hamilton has done.

McLaren drivers are required to make more personal appearances for a host of sponsors than their rivals.

The space on their racing suit is owned by the team, as are the trophies they win.

Hamilton was not the first to try, and fail, to change that policy; but, ultimately, he felt the restrictions on him had become claustrophobic, a sentiment echoed by his manager, Simon Fuller, whose XIX Entertainment company held up star client David Beckham as an example of what opportunities could be open to a man with global appeal.

Mercedes principal Ross Brawn acknowledged the part Fuller played in moving Hamilton from McLaren.

'Lewis's management expressed interest, wanted to know what our plans were and it grew from there,' said Brawn.

Hill believes McLaren's inflexible approach to drivers through the ages contributed to Hamilton's decision to leave the team.

'I could never get my head around the logic that the team takes the driver's trophy,' said Hill, who won 22 Formula One races.

'It's the principle, not the trophy, that is at stake. After you have won a championship, and jumped through a lot of hoops, there is a point when you think: "This is my life". You can have a bellyful of becoming a performing seal. You don't want to be on probation for your whole career.

'Of course, you still have to fight inside the car; but there is a time when, surely, you have proved you can motivate yourself. These are things Lewis has tried to balance.

'This is quite a shift in the power balance in Formula One. It shows a driver is a more important ingredient in the sport than the teams like to think.

'Formula One would do well to remember the public relates to a driver's career path more than any team with the exception of Ferrari. The rest are just operations. To the public, the sport is about the drivers.

'There is a huge disconnect between the philosophy of a team and a driver. Drivers just want to race, they don't see Formula One as a marketing exercise or product development. To a team, a driver is a hired hand. But drivers have a right to a career path. They don't belong to a team.'

Hill engaged in talks with McLaren at one period in his career, after winning the world championship for Williams in 1996.

He departed for Arrows, a team at the wrong end of the grid, on a reported £3 million salary in the year he declined the new contract he was offered by Frank Williams.

'I feel very close to Williams but they didn't always feel close to me,' said Hill, who provided Eddie Jordan's team with their first grand prix win before he retired.

Brawn, who masterminded seven world titles for Michael Schumacher, at Benetton, then Ferrari, has persuaded Hamilton that the introduction of new engine regulations, introducing 1.6 turbo power plants in Formula One from 2014, will shift the axis of power towards the German car giants.

The jury is still out, however.

In the past three years, Mercedes have won just one grand prix while McLaren have won 16.

Yet the intervention of Lauda, invited by Mercedes' main board to broker a deal with Hamilton, finally persuaded the 27-year-old to accept the challenge of making the team champions.

Mexican Sergio Perez, 22, will replace Hamilton at McLaren on a three-year £20 million contract.

'Of course, Lewis has taken a risk,' said Hill.

'Mercedes don't have a track record like McLaren but, as a driver in Formula One, you have to look at what's coming down the track a couple of years ahead. It will be interesting to see how Mercedes up.'

Well, Hill should know. After all, he's spent his all career at McLaren. But I'd like to read about his Ferrari years, too. /s

[nikon133]

Here's the thing since I'm sensing a little love loss between the McLaren fans and Lewis fans...

Lewis made his decision based on what he felt was best for him. Fair enough and there is nothing to argue about that point, like it or not.

What a fan of Mclaren has to ask is why did Lewis make that decision and if it was something that was simply a perception by Lewis or a reality based on the way Mclaren implemented their management within the team, the policies dictating contractual driver obligations, or even the offer they made at the time of the contract renegotiation. McLaren have just as much responsibility for the outcome, and they set a value for him as a driver and obviously Lewis felt that value was less than his team mate. Ultimately this value (monetary and otherwise) led to the outcome we had. Why then blame Lewis for being greedy or a traitor or ungrateful or a spoiled brat or a poor driver unable to win another championship or whatever it is that's thrown his way without also holding McLaren to the same level of accountability for their failings?

In other words, McLaren says, it will be better without Lewis and they say the driver lineup of Button/Perez will be better for them than the driver lineup of Button/Lewis, or else they would have fought harder to keep the guy. McLaren fans have to accept that.

Does anyone think if Lewis today was contending for the lead with Alonso, (the haul of points lost due to the various issues) and the entire McLaren staff was coalesced around getting Lewis a WDC that he would have walked?

McLaren made a decision in this situation just as much as Lewis made a decision. We move forward and we'll find out who will benefit most out of those decisions in the short term. No one doubts that McLaren will be in the sport long after Mercedes leave again, no one doubts that McLaren will win another WCC at some point in the future, but McLaren made a decision, perhaps to gamble, not just by the monetary offer but by the support Lewis felt he was getting from the team.

McLaren let a guy who is arguably the best driver in the sport today walk away. We'll see how it all unfolds.

Fact is McL wasted energy trying to keep him happy, and now they can focus more to their purpose. He is free to decide his own future, and well done to him for being so brave, but why blame the team for that? they were the ones that gave him as a rookie equal treatment with F. Alonso? (He could replace Massa at Ferrari to see how other teams work ) If he doesn't like the way his team works he is free to leave... McL will survive...
A team -multiple n different personalities that work as a group- is always bigger than a driver and cannot be manipulated in the likings and habits of one driver (even if he is the best). the team has survived for almost twice the age of Lewis working that way...
A driver never overdrives a car, he is just driving it closer to it's limits.

There. When driver and team start their relation on such a high note, there is nowhere else to grow. LH was let to be star with Alonso around. Then he was God with HK. And then another Brit was introduced to a team, one with a title in his pocket, not to mention charm and gorgeous girlfriend at his arm. Undivided attention that LH was taking for granted suddenly wasn't undivided anymore. Discontent developed, and that was end of it.

I like Mercedes, but I don't expect them to challenge top any time soon. They had likely the most experienced driver on the grid, and one always praised to be most capable of helping engineers to develop car, and I don't think they made any stellar progress. But that is not the only problem LH will face. At McL, he was driving against two foreigners, and it took one contryman to make him unhappy. At Merc, he is foreigner, lining against domestic Nico. And he is also replacing bigger-than-life MS. For his own good, I hope he is not expecting easy ride there. He might end up bitterly disappointed, which would be a shame for such talent.

All that presuming that money is not behind everything.

[LewEngBridewell]

Well, Hill should know. After all, he's spent his all career at McLaren. But I'd like to read about his Ferrari years, too. /s

I know tell me about it! The guy turned down opportunities to race for McLaren or continue with Williams, in order to race for Arrows!

He CLEARLY is the mastermind of inspired driver-team changes

[PartsaS]

There. When driver and team start their relation on such a high note, there is nowhere else to grow. LH was let to be star with Alonso around. Then he was God with HK. And then another Brit was introduced to a team, one with a title in his pocket, not to mention charm and gorgeous girlfriend at his arm. Undivided attention that LH was taking for granted suddenly wasn't undivided anymore. Discontent developed, and that was end of it.

I like Mercedes, but I don't expect them to challenge top any time soon. They had likely the most experienced driver on the grid, and one always praised to be most capable of helping engineers to develop car, and I don't think they made any stellar progress. But that is not the only problem LH will face. At McL, he was driving against two foreigners, and it took one contryman to make him unhappy. At Merc, he is foreigner, lining against domestic Nico. And he is also replacing bigger-than-life MS. For his own good, I hope he is not expecting easy ride there. He might end up bitterly disappointed, which would be a shame for such talent.

All that presuming that money is not behind everything.

Wellsaid, None knows for sure the true reasons of why he left, but apparently he didn't like ''equal treatment'' afterall, I admit that he deserved a little bit more attention than Button, but then again Alonso deserved more attention than Lewis at his first year in F1...
But they treated the rookie as a champion... and he should at least be thankful of that...
I hope he finds what he seeks in Merc, although it is a downgrade. and I really hope Perez will be the next big talent of F1.

[Hammer278]

Wellsaid, None knows for sure the true reasons of why he left, but apparently he didn't like ''equal treatment'' afterall, I admit that he deserved a little bit more attention than Button, but then again Alonso deserved more attention than Lewis at his first year in F1...
But they treated the rookie as a champion... and he should at least be thankful of that...
I hope he finds what he seeks in Merc, although it is a downgrade. and I really hope Perez will be the next big talent of F1.

Err..more like NO they did not treat Lewis as a WDC in his rookie year. They were equal, and Alonso was the one crying for No.1 status (like he does everywhere, why do you think he's finally at peace?) but Ron Dennis refused. Next came the 'toys out of the pram' with Crybaby selling out McLaren to the FIA for their unethical (yet still legal since they did not shoot anyone for the documents!) business practice.

Lewis probably left seeing as McLaren can't even keep themselves in shape when they FINALLY had the best car from Race 1. Their number of mistakes this season was a complete joke to be honest. The fuel debacle in Spain qualifying, the strategic blunders, the sh*t pistops. Fastest pitstops by a few hundredths now, big f'in deal, they lost whole seconds which lost a hell of a lot of points for Lewis in the first few races!

[f1ea]

Where do you think it all started going wrong for McLaren?

When they made young Lewis equal to Alonso in his first F1 season ever.

Young driver, regardless raw talent, needs time to mature. Like some complex dishes needing time to cook on slow fire, otherwise overcook on the outside but remains raw on the inside. You don't want to elevate young driver to celebrity that quick; his expectations will skyrocket and he will never be realistic or satisfied in that environment.

I think this will do good for both Lewis and Mclaren, to break off unhealthy relation they have jump started before its time. I hope McL will not make the same mistake with this new youngster Peres.

Knows what he's talking about.

[andrew]

Well, Hill should know. After all, he's spent his all career at McLaren. But I'd like to read about his Ferrari years, too. /s

I know tell me about it! The guy turned down opportunities to race for McLaren or continue with Williams, in order to race for Arrows!

He CLEARLY is the mastermind of inspired driver-team changes

I thought the same thing. Just another has-been jumping on the bash McLaren bandwagon.

[What's Burning?]

Well, Hill should know. After all, he's spent his all career at McLaren. But I'd like to read about his Ferrari years, too. /s

I know tell me about it! The guy turned down opportunities to race for McLaren or continue with Williams, in order to race for Arrows!

He CLEARLY is the mastermind of inspired driver-team changes

I thought the same thing. Just another has-been jumping on the bash McLaren bandwagon.

So you're comfortable calling a WDC a has been?

[andrew]

Yeah, and guess what? I'll still sleep soundly tonight.

What's he done since anyway?

[f1ea]

Hill is not exactly bashing Mclaren. He stated some of the things he didnt like too much and why he thinks Lewis wanted to break the umbilical cord...

Im sure any driver can come up with a few things they dont like about a team.

Even Ferrari is not perfect.

[Bulletproof]

During the 2010 and 2011 seasons Jenson out scored Lewis on overall points scored and on podium finishes, so looking at the stats, Jenson is a better overall driver who can deliver more points than Lewis. He is not quite as quick on raw pace, but with the tripe that is written in this thread anyone would think Jenson hadn't scored a single point since joining Mclaren.

I know this year Lewis is ahead a little but we'll just have to see where we end up at the end.

But for people to slag Jenson off as much as you lot do, I think it's unfounded.

I don't know which 2010 season you watched, but the one I saw had Lewis beat Jenson on wins, podiums and points. Last year no one raced for anything but second, since there was nothing to really shoot for other than race wins, and both McLaren drives still scored 3 wins a piece, but give credit where credit is due, Jenson outscored Lewis indeed.

This year? Have you been watching the races this year and did you see the string of six or sever races Jeson put together?

I'm talking about the two seasons combined, 38 races, Jenson outscored and out podiumed Lewis over these races, fact. Lewis grabbed one more win overall but that's his only winning stat.

I know Lewis is a superb driver, but the s*** Jenson gets in these threads needs to be addressed, you lot berate him endlessly.

As for this season......well we'll discuss that when the years out.

[What's Burning?]

Yeah, and guess what? I'll still sleep soundly tonight.

What's he done since anyway?

Most "has beens" would probably say it was better to have been, than not have been at all.

[madbrad]

Good post!!
Where do you think it all started going wrong for McLaren?

When Bruce died.

[racechick]

Good post!!
Where do you think it all started going wrong for McLaren?

When Bruce died.