FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

Discuss the sport you love with other motorsport fans

Formula One related discussion.
#323804
Hill paints an unflattering picture of McLaren


At Mercedes, Hamilton will receive the freedom to capitalise on his own commercial value as well as banking as much as £60million from the three-year contract that has persuaded him to abandon the team that nurtured him from childhood.

'Lewis needed to leave McLaren to stretch his wings,' argued Hill.

Hamilton had become disillusioned with the culture at McLaren defined by company chairman Ron Dennis, who had steered Niki Lauda, Alain Prost, the late Ayrton Senna, and Mika Hakkinen to world championships before grooming Hamilton to stardom.

Despite their success, Lauda, Prost and Senna all felt compelled to break with McLaren, as Hamilton has done.

McLaren drivers are required to make more personal appearances for a host of sponsors than their rivals.

The space on their racing suit is owned by the team, as are the trophies they win.

Hamilton was not the first to try, and fail, to change that policy; but, ultimately, he felt the restrictions on him had become claustrophobic, a sentiment echoed by his manager, Simon Fuller, whose XIX Entertainment company held up star client David Beckham as an example of what opportunities could be open to a man with global appeal.

Mercedes principal Ross Brawn acknowledged the part Fuller played in moving Hamilton from McLaren.

'Lewis's management expressed interest, wanted to know what our plans were and it grew from there,' said Brawn.

Hill believes McLaren's inflexible approach to drivers through the ages contributed to Hamilton's decision to leave the team.

'I could never get my head around the logic that the team takes the driver's trophy,' said Hill, who won 22 Formula One races.

'It's the principle, not the trophy, that is at stake. After you have won a championship, and jumped through a lot of hoops, there is a point when you think: "This is my life". You can have a bellyful of becoming a performing seal. You don't want to be on probation for your whole career.

'Of course, you still have to fight inside the car; but there is a time when, surely, you have proved you can motivate yourself. These are things Lewis has tried to balance.

'This is quite a shift in the power balance in Formula One. It shows a driver is a more important ingredient in the sport than the teams like to think.

'Formula One would do well to remember the public relates to a driver's career path more than any team with the exception of Ferrari. The rest are just operations. To the public, the sport is about the drivers.

'There is a huge disconnect between the philosophy of a team and a driver. Drivers just want to race, they don't see Formula One as a marketing exercise or product development. To a team, a driver is a hired hand. But drivers have a right to a career path. They don't belong to a team.'

Hill engaged in talks with McLaren at one period in his career, after winning the world championship for Williams in 1996.

He departed for Arrows, a team at the wrong end of the grid, on a reported £3 million salary in the year he declined the new contract he was offered by Frank Williams.

'I feel very close to Williams but they didn't always feel close to me,' said Hill, who provided Eddie Jordan's team with their first grand prix win before he retired.

Brawn, who masterminded seven world titles for Michael Schumacher, at Benetton, then Ferrari, has persuaded Hamilton that the introduction of new engine regulations, introducing 1.6 turbo power plants in Formula One from 2014, will shift the axis of power towards the German car giants.

The jury is still out, however.

In the past three years, Mercedes have won just one grand prix while McLaren have won 16.

Yet the intervention of Lauda, invited by Mercedes' main board to broker a deal with Hamilton, finally persuaded the 27-year-old to accept the challenge of making the team champions.

Mexican Sergio Perez, 22, will replace Hamilton at McLaren on a three-year £20 million contract.

'Of course, Lewis has taken a risk,' said Hill.

'Mercedes don't have a track record like McLaren but, as a driver in Formula One, you have to look at what's coming down the track a couple of years ahead. It will be interesting to see how Mercedes up.'
#323813
The Lewis to Merc deal is done and dusted. So, for me the really big question is if McLaren have jumped too soon in securing Perez as their replacement driver. My feelings is they should have been a little more opportunistic and waited a while. I would have contacted a few driver, yes, Perez included, and made it clear that they were under contention for the 2nd seat. Performance over the next few races would be a big determining factor.

Whilst Perez has had a really good year, he has, in reality only just edged his team-mate, who I rate nearly as highly as Sergio. Kobi is a huge talent and, has a little more experience. Head to head he is marginally ahead of Perez in Q and marginally behind in races. Another candidate surely must have been Di Resta - a driver I rate very highly and who is just improving in leaps and bounds each race. He is also a proven champion in very competitive competitions.

One things for sure, I will be watching with great interest the competition at Sauber between Perez and Kobi - Perez trying to prove to his new team that they made a good choice and Kobi trying to prove they didn't :)
#323814
You beat me to it DD. I read that in the paper this morning. Seems Hill definately thinks Hamilton made the right move
#323819
At Mercedes, Hamilton will receive the freedom to capitalise on his own commercial value as well as banking as much as £60million from the three-year contract that has persuaded him to abandon the team that nurtured him from childhood.


What a delightful rags to riches story. He'll be a poor boy no longer.

Hill engaged in talks with McLaren at one period in his career, after winning the world championship for Williams in 1996. He departed for Arrows, a team at the wrong end of the grid, on a reported £3 million salary in the year he declined the new contract he was offered by Frank Williams.


And what a fine decision THAT was Mr. Hill. That's where your career faltered and started to loose its way. Kind of tarnishes these thoughts of who was right and wrong, really.

'Mercedes don't have a track record like McLaren but, as a driver in Formula One, you have to look at what's coming down the track a couple of years ahead. It will be interesting to see how Mercedes up.'


That's what Ralf Schumacher and Jarno Trulli said prior to 2005, what we all said about BMW, what Jenson Button said year after year at the back of the grid with BAR/Honda (yes, they did eventually bloom with Brawn, but it took a long time, and longer than Lewis would put up with....)
#323824
I think Lewis would have stayed with McLaren if they could have delivered him another championship over the past 4 years. Obviously Lewis was frustrated at having a potential championship winning car most years, yet not managing to get another crown. :rolleyes:

McLaren doen't seem that bothered about winning championships these days, which is a strange approach if you ask me.

By Lewis moving to Mercededs, he will be starting with a car that probably isn't a championship winner but If he does well in it, it will silence all those who say that Lewis had an easy ride in F1, walking straight into McLaren for his first season etc, etc.

I think this is a very good move for Merc, Brawn and Lewis.

(let's not forget, Mercedes supply engines to McLaren and Force India. It's not like he's moving to a small outfit with no money here.)
#323825
McLaren doen't seem that bothered about winning championships these days, which is a strange approach if you ask me.


It's comments like this which make me question why I bother reading certain threads...
#323826
McLaren doen't seem that bothered about winning championships these days, which is a strange approach if you ask me.


It's comments like this which make me question why I bother reading certain threads...



My comment is a fair one as McLaren want Button as their Number 1. Tell me how many championships they are likely to win with Button?

Perez should be good though, but again, Button will probably spit the dummy if Perez beats him too often. :rolleyes:
#323830
Lew There's no way lewis did this just for money. The money is a reflection of his worth in F1 but Lewis wants to win. He wants to be in a team he can help develop, feel a valued part of and contributer to. He wants to stretch his wings and fly. And he wants parity with his team mate.
And as damon said at the end of his interview "Mercedes have nowhere to hide now they have Lewis Hamilton driving for them"

So lets see if they step up to the mark together.
#323832
I think Lewis would have stayed with McLaren if they could have delivered him another championship over the past 4 years. Obviously Lewis was frustrated at having a potential championship winning car most years, yet not managing to get another crown. :rolleyes:

McLaren doen't seem that bothered about winning championships these days, which is a strange approach if you ask me.

By Lewis moving to Mercededs, he will be starting with a car that probably isn't a championship winner but If he does well in it, it will silence all those who say that Lewis had an easy ride in F1, walking straight into McLaren for his first season etc, etc.

I think this is a very good move for Merc, Brawn and Lewis.

(let's not forget, Mercedes supply engines to McLaren and Force India. It's not like he's moving to a small outfit with no money here.)


If McL gave him a potential championship winning car most years, and yet he has not manage to get another crown, then it is somehow his fault too, isn't it?
Also don't forget that we had a RedBull domination the past years, and Ferrari was always there, but the fact is beside the money and Brawn's talent, Mercedes was nowhere...
#323834
Here's the thing since I'm sensing a little love loss between the McLaren fans and Lewis fans... :yes:

Lewis made his decision based on what he felt was best for him. Fair enough and there is nothing to argue about that point, like it or not.

What a fan of Mclaren has to ask is why did Lewis make that decision and if it was something that was simply a perception by Lewis or a reality based on the way Mclaren implemented their management within the team, the policies dictating contractual driver obligations, or even the offer they made at the time of the contract renegotiation. McLaren have just as much responsibility for the outcome, and they set a value for him as a driver and obviously Lewis felt that value was less than his team mate. Ultimately this value (monetary and otherwise) led to the outcome we had. Why then blame Lewis for being greedy or a traitor or ungrateful or a spoiled brat or a poor driver unable to win another championship or whatever it is that's thrown his way without also holding McLaren to the same level of accountability for their failings?

In other words, McLaren says, it will be better without Lewis and they say the driver lineup of Button/Perez will be better for them than the driver lineup of Button/Lewis, or else they would have fought harder to keep the guy. McLaren fans have to accept that.

Does anyone think if Lewis today was contending for the lead with Alonso, (the haul of points lost due to the various issues) and the entire McLaren staff was coalesced around getting Lewis a WDC that he would have walked?

McLaren made a decision in this situation just as much as Lewis made a decision. We move forward and we'll find out who will benefit most out of those decisions in the short term. No one doubts that McLaren will be in the sport long after Mercedes leave again, no one doubts that McLaren will win another WCC at some point in the future, but McLaren made a decision, perhaps to gamble, not just by the monetary offer but by the support Lewis felt he was getting from the team.

McLaren let a guy who is arguably the best driver in the sport today walk away. We'll see how it all unfolds.
#323836
Hill paints an unflattering picture of McLaren


At Mercedes, Hamilton will receive the freedom to capitalise on his own commercial value as well as banking as much as £60million from the three-year contract that has persuaded him to abandon the team that nurtured him from childhood.

'Lewis needed to leave McLaren to stretch his wings,' argued Hill.

Hamilton had become disillusioned with the culture at McLaren defined by company chairman Ron Dennis, who had steered Niki Lauda, Alain Prost, the late Ayrton Senna, and Mika Hakkinen to world championships before grooming Hamilton to stardom.

Despite their success, Lauda, Prost and Senna all felt compelled to break with McLaren, as Hamilton has done.

McLaren drivers are required to make more personal appearances for a host of sponsors than their rivals.

The space on their racing suit is owned by the team, as are the trophies they win.

Hamilton was not the first to try, and fail, to change that policy; but, ultimately, he felt the restrictions on him had become claustrophobic, a sentiment echoed by his manager, Simon Fuller, whose XIX Entertainment company held up star client David Beckham as an example of what opportunities could be open to a man with global appeal.

Mercedes principal Ross Brawn acknowledged the part Fuller played in moving Hamilton from McLaren.

'Lewis's management expressed interest, wanted to know what our plans were and it grew from there,' said Brawn.

Hill believes McLaren's inflexible approach to drivers through the ages contributed to Hamilton's decision to leave the team.

'I could never get my head around the logic that the team takes the driver's trophy,' said Hill, who won 22 Formula One races.

'It's the principle, not the trophy, that is at stake. After you have won a championship, and jumped through a lot of hoops, there is a point when you think: "This is my life". You can have a bellyful of becoming a performing seal. You don't want to be on probation for your whole career.

'Of course, you still have to fight inside the car; but there is a time when, surely, you have proved you can motivate yourself. These are things Lewis has tried to balance.

'This is quite a shift in the power balance in Formula One. It shows a driver is a more important ingredient in the sport than the teams like to think.

'Formula One would do well to remember the public relates to a driver's career path more than any team with the exception of Ferrari. The rest are just operations. To the public, the sport is about the drivers.

'There is a huge disconnect between the philosophy of a team and a driver. Drivers just want to race, they don't see Formula One as a marketing exercise or product development. To a team, a driver is a hired hand. But drivers have a right to a career path. They don't belong to a team.'

Hill engaged in talks with McLaren at one period in his career, after winning the world championship for Williams in 1996.

He departed for Arrows, a team at the wrong end of the grid, on a reported £3 million salary in the year he declined the new contract he was offered by Frank Williams.

'I feel very close to Williams but they didn't always feel close to me,' said Hill, who provided Eddie Jordan's team with their first grand prix win before he retired.

Brawn, who masterminded seven world titles for Michael Schumacher, at Benetton, then Ferrari, has persuaded Hamilton that the introduction of new engine regulations, introducing 1.6 turbo power plants in Formula One from 2014, will shift the axis of power towards the German car giants.

The jury is still out, however.

In the past three years, Mercedes have won just one grand prix while McLaren have won 16.

Yet the intervention of Lauda, invited by Mercedes' main board to broker a deal with Hamilton, finally persuaded the 27-year-old to accept the challenge of making the team champions.

Mexican Sergio Perez, 22, will replace Hamilton at McLaren on a three-year £20 million contract.

'Of course, Lewis has taken a risk,' said Hill.

'Mercedes don't have a track record like McLaren but, as a driver in Formula One, you have to look at what's coming down the track a couple of years ahead. It will be interesting to see how Mercedes up.'


DD, thanks loads for posting this. Hill is spot on...Lewis needed to go. And AMG's lack of proper F1 credentials isn't something to discount. I quite fancy the Brawn/Hamilton union supported by Team AMG's technical assets and support arms. Gives me something exciting to look forward to.

What's Burning, Amen brotha. Well put...so much of what McLaren has done or in some cases hasn't done played a big role in Lewis leaving...that's easy to see from our armchair. I think he is better off. McLaren will have to convince themselves they are better off.

I'm just saying...
Last edited by The Second Coming on 30 Sep 12, 13:00, edited 1 time in total.
#323838
Here's the thing since I'm sensing a little love loss between the McLaren fans and Lewis fans... :yes:

Lewis made his decision based on what he felt was best for him. Fair enough and there is nothing to argue about that point, like it or not.

What a fan of Mclaren has to ask is why did Lewis make that decision and if it was something that was simply a perception by Lewis or a reality based on the way Mclaren implemented their management within the team, the policies dictating contractual driver obligations, or even the offer they made at the time of the contract renegotiation. McLaren have just as much responsibility for the outcome, and they set a value for him as a driver and obviously Lewis felt that value was less than his team mate. Ultimately this value led to the outcome we had. Why then blame Lewis for being greedy or a traitor or ungrateful or a spoiled brat or a poor driver unable to win another championship or whatever it is that's thrown his way without also holding McLaren to the same level of accountability for their failings?

In other words, McLaren says, it will be better without Lewis and they say the driver lineup of Button/Perez will be better for them than the driver lineup of Button/Lewis, or else they would have fought harder to keep the guy.

Does anyone think if Lewis today was contending for the lead with Alonso, (the haul of points lost due to the various issues) and the entire McLaren staff was coalesced around getting Lewis a WDC that he would have walked?

McLaren made a decision in this situation just as much as Lewis made a decision. We move forward and we'll find out who will benefit most out of those descision in the short term. No one doubts that McLaren will be in the sport long after Mercedes leave again, no one doubts that McLaren will win another WCC at some point in the future, but McLaren made a decision, perhaps to gamble, not just by the monetary offer but by the support Lewis felt he was getting from the team.

McLaren let a guy who is arguably the best driver in the sport today walk away. We'll see how it all unfolds.


:yes::thumbup::clap:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 13

See our F1 related articles too!