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[andrew]

Or they are an evolution ahead on parts, and not as reliable.

Perhaps part of the engine deal is that teams are given a choice of some components.

Maybe one team has to use one out of a Lotus Elan, and the other it is made out of old redbull cans

Red Bull thought it was a trick question from Renault when they went for the Lotus Elan version!

[darwin dali]

Is there a reason why Kimi hasn't had to retire with alternator problems while Vettel has retired twice?

Probably just the way the car was set up for cooling, then perhaps also an external factor such as running in the hot air of another car. Some drivers are harder on parts than others too, although i am not sure this would affect an alternator as greatly as say a gearbox or an engine.

I've got no skin in the Renault/Red Bull/Lotus menage a trois. Just questioning the validity of a meaningful "real" advantage to an engine manufacturer since the regulations so heavily favor aero design.

Or they are an evolution ahead on parts, and not as reliable.

Maybe the alternator is made by infinity?

I recall reading a mention of Magneti Marelli as the originator of the troubled alternator...

[f1ea]

It was a similar risk for MS when he left Benetton for Ferrari. And we found out that a grandee team with a massive pedigree and history to resurrect have the incentive to buy their way to the front

As Alonso says only Lewis can do what MS did for Ferrari - drive the team to the front by winning when the car is not fastest,

Alonso confirmed: "I have said he is the only one capable of winning without having the best car. The others win if the car is good, and when it is not (good), they do not (win)."

this galvanises the staff and allows them to to concentrate their efforts on giving Lewis what he needs - If MS was the driver he was before Merc would have improved a lot more

If Nico has won one race this year vs 3 for Lewis in the best car, I would argue that Lewis in the Merc this year would have won 2 races with Nico also winning 2 at McLaren.

And to those saying that Merc have not done much so far, well what they have done is stealthy build posibly the best collection of aero guys and engineers. So they can only improve providing Merc open the tap on endless funds, and with the best driver on the grid as figurehead they cannot afford not to

McLaren might have Merc engines now at the tail end of their engine deal which undoubtedly came with lots of extras FI dont have, come 2014 it will be a different ballgame

I would even bet that Merc could decide not to supply customers with the new engine or supply them with a version that requires lots of bells and whistles that only they keep to themselves.
The least of this will be assistance in helping teams integrate the engine on different chassis

Last but not least, Mercs chassis guys already have the dimensions etc of the new engine, non of the customers will get this info for another year or so, I doubt Merc will not derive a massive advantage from this

So Lewis doesnt challenge for a couple of years, he will have a break clause in the contract, post McLaren Alonso at Renault for 2 years didnt seem to consign him to the back of the grid for the rest of his career

i'm just musing

Agreed. They tried their 'comeback superstar' which was Michael and that flunked miserably. Time to get a current superstar and build themselves from there, in Lewis they have the fastest and arguably best driver on the grid. It would be awesome to see Lewis in the position he deserves...leading a team on and off track, instead of having to contend with a manager who's steadfast about giving more attention to a pain in the a*se teammate who competes more with his mouth than his driving.

Very long post. But Alonso never said Lewis can do what MS did. He never mentioned Lewis bringing the car to the front, and he never spoke about championships. At least not by the quotes provided.

Also, what is that nonsense about Nico winning x races at mclaren and lewis winning y at Merc???

In the end, a very typical post containing 'lewis is the best driver in the grid'. Those posts are ussualy very long.

[kerc]

But he is the best, though. Him and Alonso are the best, in fact.

[What's Burning?]

It was a similar risk for MS when he left Benetton for Ferrari. And we found out that a grandee team with a massive pedigree and history to resurrect have the incentive to buy their way to the front

As Alonso says only Lewis can do what MS did for Ferrari - drive the team to the front by winning when the car is not fastest,

Alonso confirmed: "I have said he is the only one capable of winning without having the best car. The others win if the car is good, and when it is not (good), they do not (win)."

this galvanises the staff and allows them to to concentrate their efforts on giving Lewis what he needs - If MS was the driver he was before Merc would have improved a lot more

If Nico has won one race this year vs 3 for Lewis in the best car, I would argue that Lewis in the Merc this year would have won 2 races with Nico also winning 2 at McLaren.

And to those saying that Merc have not done much so far, well what they have done is stealthy build posibly the best collection of aero guys and engineers. So they can only improve providing Merc open the tap on endless funds, and with the best driver on the grid as figurehead they cannot afford not to

McLaren might have Merc engines now at the tail end of their engine deal which undoubtedly came with lots of extras FI dont have, come 2014 it will be a different ballgame

I would even bet that Merc could decide not to supply customers with the new engine or supply them with a version that requires lots of bells and whistles that only they keep to themselves.
The least of this will be assistance in helping teams integrate the engine on different chassis

Last but not least, Mercs chassis guys already have the dimensions etc of the new engine, non of the customers will get this info for another year or so, I doubt Merc will not derive a massive advantage from this

So Lewis doesnt challenge for a couple of years, he will have a break clause in the contract, post McLaren Alonso at Renault for 2 years didnt seem to consign him to the back of the grid for the rest of his career

i'm just musing

Agreed. They tried their 'comeback superstar' which was Michael and that flunked miserably. Time to get a current superstar and build themselves from there, in Lewis they have the fastest and arguably best driver on the grid. It would be awesome to see Lewis in the position he deserves...leading a team on and off track, instead of having to contend with a manager who's steadfast about giving more attention to a pain in the a*se teammate who competes more with his mouth than his driving.

Very long post. But Alonso never said Lewis can do what MS did. He never mentioned Lewis bringing the car to the front, and he never spoke about championships. At least not by the quotes provided.

Also, what is that nonsense about Nico winning x races at mclaren and lewis winning y at Merc???

In the end, a very typical post containing 'lewis is the best driver in the grid'. Those posts are ussualy very long.

Oh, but not nearly as long as the ones claiming Vettel is the best driver on the grid. But look at the bright side, Alonso made a real funny.

Asked which of his title rivals he feared most, Alonso joked: "If I had to choose between Hamilton or Vettel, I would choose Räikkonen."

"Hamilton is the only one who is capable of winning without having the best car, which is evident as the others only win when they have a good car."

"There will be some twists and turns among the title contenders in the final run-in, as it's a closely-fought battle. It's easier when you've got an advantage over the rest. I'm more relaxed than I was last year."

[andrew]

But he is the best, though. Him and Alonso are the best, in fact.

You mean in your opinion, not in fact.

[CookinFlat6]

Also, what is that nonsense about Nico winning x races at mclaren and lewis winning y at Merc???

In the end, a very typical post containing 'lewis is the best driver in the grid'. Those posts are ussualy very long.

Its not rocket science

Nico has won 1 race for merc this season, its my opinion that Lewis would also have won at least one, in fact I reckon that lewis would have won 1 more race in the Merc

Nico is close to button in the points therefore I am reasoning that in the McLaren he would have won also 2 races

And Lewis and Alonso are the best drivers on the grid (1st and 2nd in points) Alonso however has a grandee team focussed on him, and so Lewis would be better off at Merc with a similar setup

[f1ea]

But he is the best, though. Him and Alonso are the best, in fact.

You mean in your opinion, not in fact.

Also, what is that nonsense about Nico winning x races at mclaren and lewis winning y at Merc???

In the end, a very typical post containing 'lewis is the best driver in the grid'. Those posts are ussualy very long.

Its not rocket science

Totally correct. It closer to horoscope-reading science.

[CookinFlat6]

Merc will be designing their car around the new engine many moons before the customers even get a sniff at its dimensions

How do you know this? No customer team that's going to pay money for a product would do it blindly, there would be a contractual sharing of information, any and all information before the first engine is ever built. We're not talking about a shopping cart on Amazon with customer reviews for a microwave oven. There are deep bidirectional contracts negotiated in these kinds of sales.

I have to derail the Lewis thread with this, but its a valid topic that maybe we should move over the the new engine requirments thread.

Brawn admitted that while McLaren will remain a Mercedes customer, the fact his is the ‘works team’ means they are privy to all of the research and development of the new engine and are therefore better placed to design their car around it.

[CookinFlat6]

But he is the best, though. Him and Alonso are the best, in fact.

You mean in your opinion, not in fact.

Also, what is that nonsense about Nico winning x races at mclaren and lewis winning y at Merc???

In the end, a very typical post containing 'lewis is the best driver in the grid'. Those posts are ussualy very long.

Its not rocket science

Totally correct. It closer to horoscope-reading science.

Otherwise known as ones subjective opinion and the reason forums exist

[andrew]

Also, what is that nonsense about Nico winning x races at mclaren and lewis winning y at Merc???

In the end, a very typical post containing 'lewis is the best driver in the grid'. Those posts are ussualy very long.

Its not rocket science

Totally correct. It closer to horoscope-reading science.

[CookinFlat6]

Careful with that tongue Andrew, you might never get it out again

[andrew]

[f1ea]

But he is the best, though. Him and Alonso are the best, in fact.

You mean in your opinion, not in fact.

Also, what is that nonsense about Nico winning x races at mclaren and lewis winning y at Merc???

In the end, a very typical post containing 'lewis is the best driver in the grid'. Those posts are ussualy very long.

Its not rocket science

Totally correct. It closer to horoscope-reading science.

Otherwise known as ones subjective opinion and the reason forums exist

Now you're talking. And that's totally fine too, but you can't expect the facts to agree.

BTW what i write looks more serious and straight-faced than i'd like.... but i guess its just my style.

So yea.... These guys are all good. None is the absolute best, despite some guys being better than others, i think external stuff (namely how good the car is, reliabilty etc) ussualy are more important to getting championships.

[LRW]

Well done lewis, pole by over 4/10ths.

Can you make it 3 wins from 4 races.