FORUMula1.com

[What's Burning?]

That's why Williams/Porsche is exploring the flywheel. There are a lot of benefits to it.

[scotty]

That's why Williams/Porsche is exploring the flywheel. There are a lot of benefits to it.

As proven in the utterly brilliant Audi R18 E-Tron's, they run a Williams flywheel system.

[stonemonkey]

When I first read about the flywheel system proposed when KERS was being considered the description of it involved a mechanical link to the drive through a CVT but that's not what the williams system is, is it? The energy is put into and taken out as electrical energy with the flywheel basically replacing the battery part of the system?

[What's Burning?]

When I first read about the flywheel system proposed when KERS was being considered the description of it involved a mechanical link to the drive through a CVT but that's not what the williams system is, is it? The energy is put into and taken out as electrical energy with the flywheel basically replacing the battery part of the system?

Yes. Benefits incluse MUCH greater capacity given that the faster it spins the more energy it holds. I can be placed very low for a reduced COG. Tremendously cheaper as there is no battery replacement or wear.

...one thing I've wondered about it is if there are any gyroscopic advantages or disadvantages that have to be compensated for.

[stonemonkey]

When I first read about the flywheel system proposed when KERS was being considered the description of it involved a mechanical link to the drive through a CVT but that's not what the williams system is, is it? The energy is put into and taken out as electrical energy with the flywheel basically replacing the battery part of the system?

Yes. Benefits incluse MUCH greater capacity given that the faster it spins the more energy it holds. I can be placed very low for a reduced COG. Tremendously cheaper as there is no battery replacement or wear.

...one thing I've wondered about it is if there are any gyroscopic advantages or disadvantages that have to be compensated for.

I can only think it might have to be mounted vertically.

[What's Burning?]

See I was thinking horizontally as that would affect up and down movement which may be beneficial as opposed to vertically that would affect left and right movement.

[stonemonkey]

See I was thinking horizontally as that would affect up and down movement which may be beneficial as opposed to vertically that would affect left and right movement.

A giro (actually the housing) can rotate around it's own axis without any problems so if vertical then the giro won't exert any unwanted forces on the car when turning left/right. If mounted horizontally, either front-back or left-right then it would exert forces wanting to tip the car over and altering how the weight is distributed between the wheels as it turns and in the case of front to back mounting the forces would act differently depending on if the car is turning left or right. I think.

[Jabberwocky]

if it was mounted like a spinning top it would try to keep the car flat, however would you not have issues when the mass accelerates and decelerates when it is charged/discharged.

[Jabberwocky]

I'm not sure about your calculations, also you wouldn't want to be discharging to 0

good point

[What's Burning?]

See I was thinking horizontally as that would affect up and down movement which may be beneficial as opposed to vertically that would affect left and right movement.

A giro (actually the housing) can rotate around it's own axis without any problems so if vertical then the giro won't exert any unwanted forces on the car when turning left/right. If mounted horizontally, either front-back or left-right then it would exert forces wanting to tip the car over and altering how the weight is distributed between the wheels as it turns and in the case of front to back mounting the forces would act differently depending on if the car is turning left or right. I think.

That's an interesting point if the gyro is free floating in the housing, I think guidance gyroscopes work that way to allow for mobility. But this isn't a gyroscope it's a flywheel so the mounting mechanism wouldn't need to float at all and in a race car more than likely anything that can be fixed, is. That doesn't negate the potential gyroscopic effect of it though, and it's why I asked because I'm at the edge of my knowledge here.

[stonemonkey]

Ah no, i dont mean its free floating but the housing rotates with the car.
Military aircraft gyros, at least the ones i worked on, were fixed with the aircraft.

[What's Burning?]

Ah no, i dont mean its free floating but the housing rotates with the car.
Military aircraft gyros, at least the ones i worked on, were fixed with the aircraft.

I think it's called a gimbal or something like that or maybe that's just the term for the aircraft dial that measures rotation and pitch.

Anyway, we're on the same page. A gyroscope doesn't need to be very large, where this flywheel is something that I'm thinking would have 30 or 40 lbs or heft to it, who knows.

Maybe our resident green jacket engineer will chime in! I could just go try and google it but it's so much more fun to try and figure things out here with our little bits and pieces of information.

What kind of military aircraft did you work on?

[stonemonkey]

Tornados

[stonemonkey]

Ah no, i dont mean its free floating but the housing rotates with the car.
Military aircraft gyros, at least the ones i worked on, were fixed with the aircraft.

I think it's called a gimbal or something like that or maybe that's just the term for the aircraft dial that measures rotation and pitch.

Anyway, we're on the same page. A gyroscope doesn't need to be very large, where this flywheel is something that I'm thinking would have 30 or 40 lbs or heft to it, who knows.

Maybe our resident green jacket engineer will chime in! I could just go try and google it but it's so much more fun to try and figure things out here with our little bits and pieces of information.

What kind of military aircraft did you work on?

A gimbal allows rotation about an axis.

as well as the larger mass, the flywheel is spinning much faster than a gyro would, i think i read something like up to 70,000 rpm.

if it was mounted like a spinning top it would try to keep the car flat, however would you not have issues when the mass accelerates and decelerates when it is charged/discharged.

Yep, it would apply torque to the chassis, I don't know which would cause more of a problem, that or the precession of a horizontal flywheel when the car is turning. Some of the problems could be sorted by having pairs of smaller flywheels turning on opposing directions.

[Jabberwocky]

I was thinking about keeping the car flat as a good thing