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[vaptin]

Sounds better than Lewis's race comments,

Of course we ought to adjudicate breaches of the FIA regulations based on Hammer's perception of whininess

Sorry, I'm hungry.

[scotty]

Why is it none of us here can trust the stewards to make the right decision.

The stewards that have GPS tracking, showing racing lines.
The stewards that have telemetry from each car showing driver inputs.
The stewards that have multiple camera angles - many more than we see on TV.
The stewards that have an ex professional F1 driver on the team.
The stewards that know a lot more than us about racing and the rules......

I think we all need to give them more credit.

Yup. Then add in the factor that they're working to constantly changing regulations, something i think people forget.

From supeindesu's link "For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a ’significant portion’." Added Charlie Whiting, the FIA race director."

This rule was added in July. It makes today's incident pretty clear really.

[myownalias]

Admittedly; constantly moving goalposts make the stewards job harder, but there has still be inconsistent stewarding; sometimes very similar events in the same race are punished and unpunished, how can one driver be punished and another not punished when they both committed the same 'crime'? Basically in-season rule changes should be banned to avoid this confusion, it makes a mockery of the sport in my opinion!

[PartsaS]

almost with every race that goes by ,ferrari and alonso gives me reasons, to hate them even more...
You may tell me whatever you want about recent changes to the rules and stuff... but I watch F1 since 1994 and Vettel here did nothing that deserved a penalty, did anyone asked him, if he had the grip at that speed to turn tighter in the corner so he could leave some space, On the other hand alonso tried a dangerous move putting Vettel in a difficult position, if alonso backed off a bit, nothing would have happened. After all he had the speed to pass him somewhere else...
I know the tiffosi fans will attack me, for what I'll say, but it's my opinion that ferrari is the favorite child of fia for a very long time, and in their ground I wasn't expecting anything different...
I will respect the rules if they will be constant and non biased... ( they have not gave penalties for much more serious incidents).
ps Also Alonso did not finished 3rd but 4th. I know team orders are legal now... I know every team has done it at some point, but in ferrari's case it is their routine.

[FerrariFan63]

almost with every race that goes by ,ferrari and alonso gives me reasons, to hate them even more...
You may tell me whatever you want about recent changes to the rules and stuff... but I watch F1 since 1994 and Vettel here did nothing that deserved a penalty, did anyone asked him, if he had the grip at that speed to turn tighter in the corner so he could leave some space, On the other hand alonso tried a dangerous move putting Vettel in a difficult position, if alonso backed off a bit, nothing would have happened. After all he had the speed to pass him somewhere else...
I know the tiffosi fans will attack me, for what I'll say, but it's my opinion that ferrari is the favorite child of fia for a very long time, and in their ground I wasn't expecting anything different...
I will respect the rules if they will be constant and non biased... ( they have not gave penalties for much more serious incidents).
ps Also Alonso did not finished 3rd but 4th. I know team orders are legal now... I know every team has done it at some point, but in ferrari's case it is their routine.

It's ridiculous statements like this that make it obvious that the claims of particular unfair advantages for Ferrari and particular unsporting behaviour by Ferrari and its drivers are bollocks.

The stewards have made their judgement. I have seen absolutely nothing that would suggest that that judgement is in any way incorrect.

[vlad]

almost with every race that goes by ,ferrari and alonso gives me reasons, to hate them even more...
You may tell me whatever you want about recent changes to the rules and stuff... but I watch F1 since 1994 and Vettel here did nothing that deserved a penalty, did anyone asked him, if he had the grip at that speed to turn tighter in the corner so he could leave some space, On the other hand alonso tried a dangerous move putting Vettel in a difficult position, if alonso backed off a bit, nothing would have happened. After all he had the speed to pass him somewhere else...
I know the tiffosi fans will attack me, for what I'll say, but it's my opinion that ferrari is the favorite child of fia for a very long time, and in their ground I wasn't expecting anything different...
I will respect the rules if they will be constant and non biased... ( they have not gave penalties for much more serious incidents).
ps Also Alonso did not finished 3rd but 4th. I know team orders are legal now... I know every team has done it at some point, but in ferrari's case it is their routine.

[What's Burning?]

A controversy after a GP that doesn't involve McLaren or Hamilton. Did I log into the right forum?

[vaptin]

almost with every race that goes by ,ferrari and alonso gives me reasons, to hate them even more...
You may tell me whatever you want about recent changes to the rules and stuff... but I watch F1 since 1994 and Vettel here did nothing that deserved a penalty, did anyone asked him, if he had the grip at that speed to turn tighter in the corner so he could leave some space, On the other hand alonso tried a dangerous move putting Vettel in a difficult position, if alonso backed off a bit, nothing would have happened. After all he had the speed to pass him somewhere else...
I know the tiffosi fans will attack me, for what I'll say, but it's my opinion that ferrari is the favorite child of fia for a very long time, and in their ground I wasn't expecting anything different...
I will respect the rules if they will be constant and non biased... ( they have not gave penalties for much more serious incidents).
ps Also Alonso did not finished 3rd but 4th. I know team orders are legal now... I know every team has done it at some point, but in ferrari's case it is their routine.

We don't know if they asked him or what was said in the meeting. at any rate, that isn't an excuse in terms of the rules, Vettel was obliged to leave space as a significant portion of Alonso's car was alongside him, he didn't. Alonso clearly had a shot at the move looking at how far alongside Vettel he got.

Ok you've been watching f1 since 1994, that's nice, but not relevant to your argument.

I'm not attacking you personally (assuming this post isn't removed by the moderating staff for that reason), I'm objecting to your reasoning, on the grounds it doesn't account for Vettel's actions contradicting the rules.

[andrew]

A controversy after a GP that doesn't involve McLaren or Hamilton. Did I log into the right forum?

For one race only it's an Alonso controversy. Don't think we've ever had one of these before.





Oh wait.....

[PartsaS]

almost with every race that goes by ,ferrari and alonso gives me reasons, to hate them even more...
You may tell me whatever you want about recent changes to the rules and stuff... but I watch F1 since 1994 and Vettel here did nothing that deserved a penalty, did anyone asked him, if he had the grip at that speed to turn tighter in the corner so he could leave some space, On the other hand alonso tried a dangerous move putting Vettel in a difficult position, if alonso backed off a bit, nothing would have happened. After all he had the speed to pass him somewhere else...
I know the tiffosi fans will attack me, for what I'll say, but it's my opinion that ferrari is the favorite child of fia for a very long time, and in their ground I wasn't expecting anything different...
I will respect the rules if they will be constant and non biased... ( they have not gave penalties for much more serious incidents).
ps Also Alonso did not finished 3rd but 4th. I know team orders are legal now... I know every team has done it at some point, but in ferrari's case it is their routine.

We don't know if they asked him or what was said in the meeting. at any rate, that isn't an excuse in terms of the rules, Vettel was obliged to leave space as a significant portion of Alonso's car was alongside him, he didn't. Alonso clearly had a shot at the move looking at how far alongside Vettel he got.

Ok you've been watching f1 since 1994, that's nice, but not relevant to your argument.

I'm not attacking you personally (assuming this post isn't removed by the moderating staff for that reason), I'm objecting to your reasoning, on the grounds it doesn't account for Vettel's actions contradicting the rules.

thats ok, all I wanted to say is that rules need to be constant thru the season as it was in the past, the recent years F1 has become an circus show, and every 2 months we have new unnecessary changes to the rules that actually rob us from the excitement that F1 used to have.
In this case, my opinion is that Vettel couldn't do anything about that stupid rule becouse he couldn't turn any tighter (as he already stated)... Alonso should have backed off a bit, and try a move later. But it's the whining from both Alonso and his garage that pushed the stewarts to act...

[XploZiV]

I think the stewards need to be consistent. If they said Vettel had a drive-through because he "didn't leave space for 1 car", they should have given Di Resta a penalty too for his little come together with Senna.

[vaptin]

almost with every race that goes by ,ferrari and alonso gives me reasons, to hate them even more...
You may tell me whatever you want about recent changes to the rules and stuff... but I watch F1 since 1994 and Vettel here did nothing that deserved a penalty, did anyone asked him, if he had the grip at that speed to turn tighter in the corner so he could leave some space, On the other hand alonso tried a dangerous move putting Vettel in a difficult position, if alonso backed off a bit, nothing would have happened. After all he had the speed to pass him somewhere else...
I know the tiffosi fans will attack me, for what I'll say, but it's my opinion that ferrari is the favorite child of fia for a very long time, and in their ground I wasn't expecting anything different...
I will respect the rules if they will be constant and non biased... ( they have not gave penalties for much more serious incidents).
ps Also Alonso did not finished 3rd but 4th. I know team orders are legal now... I know every team has done it at some point, but in ferrari's case it is their routine.

We don't know if they asked him or what was said in the meeting. at any rate, that isn't an excuse in terms of the rules, Vettel was obliged to leave space as a significant portion of Alonso's car was alongside him, he didn't. Alonso clearly had a shot at the move looking at how far alongside Vettel he got.

Ok you've been watching f1 since 1994, that's nice, but not relevant to your argument.

I'm not attacking you personally (assuming this post isn't removed by the moderating staff for that reason), I'm objecting to your reasoning, on the grounds it doesn't account for Vettel's actions contradicting the rules.

thats ok, all I wanted to say is that rules need to be constant thru the season as it was in the past, the recent years F1 has become an circus show, and every 2 months we have new unnecessary changes to the rules that actually rob us from the excitement that F1 used to have.
In this case, my opinion is that Vettel couldn't do anything about that stupid rule becouse he couldn't turn any tighter (as he already stated)... Alonso should have backed off a bit, and try a move later. But it's the whining from both Alonso and his garage that pushed the stewarts to act...

This rule though was in place from the start of the season, the clarification just explained it more specifically when exactly the defending driver was required to leave a car width's worth of space. Alonso made it clear what he wanted to do, Vettel didn't account for that. I think it's similar in that sense to when he overtook Button off track, he argued he had to, but he still gained the position with an illegal move.

You don't know if the penalty was only because of the moaning, as I've explained the move in terms of breaching the rules seems pretty clear. So I'd say the complaining was perfectly justified.

[vaptin]

I think the stewards need to be consistent. If they said Vettel had a drive-through because he "didn't leave space for 1 car", they should have given Di Resta a penalty too for his little come together with Senna.

I can't remember properly, was he forced of the circuit? It's a car width between the edge of the circuit when returning to the racing line after having moved of it to defend a position. There's also no crowding other drivers.

As Zurich_Allen said, past mistakes shouldn't be upheld in future incidents.

[andrew]

As Zurich_Allen said, past mistakes shouldn't be upheld in future incidents.

Actually, they should so as to help bring some consistency to the stewarding. Had the stewards looked at last years race they'd have seen that the Vettel/Alonso move didn't require a penalty, same as it didn't require a penalty last year.

[Hammer278]

As Zurich_Allen said, past mistakes shouldn't be upheld in future incidents.

Actually, they should so as to help bring some consistency to the stewarding.

How can they help to bring consistency when the rules were DIFFERENT in past years lol.