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[racechick]

Perhaps its to ensure they have someone to take Lewis out when he's not driving for them.

dark sense of humor for you today! I don't think he's leaving.

Sticking point is the trophies. Not the promised car, not the salary but the trophies. Lewis wants the ones he wins , but I digress from Maldonado...so if you want to comment on Lewis and trophies do it on the Lewis thread

You can however comment on Maldonado in a Mclaren

[madbrad]

I don't know how the car is a selling point anyway. With the amount of salary, he could just buy the car with the change he finds in his couch. It's like, for me, if two companies each offer me a salary that pays $100,000/year, but one of them also says they'll give me a bag of chips.

[madbrad]

two intentional uses of his car as a ramming device

You say that like it has been decided upon and confirmed as such in here, which it obviously has not. It's just an opinion, and a minority one at that. Tiny minority.

[racechick]

He rammed Lewis...not even in a race!! Narked from Monacco, and he turned on Perez. The rest...either clumsy, uncontrolled anger, poor car control. Dunno!

[zurich_allan]

Given his tendency to lash out when he feels aggrieved, Monaco 2012, Spa 2011 for example; and the fact he doesn't seem to be learning, how many prangs and no scores does it take to learn that his method of driving is not suitable for success in F1; take away his win and he has done a piss poor job this season in a decent car that's capable of consistent points!

And still he says he's done no wrong, this is the worrying thing to me!!! Senna and Grosjean have had their fair share of prangs, but there is not that malicious intent involved, and they fess up to their errors.....and are learning, the errors are becoming less.

Zurich_Allen-maybe another series yes. I can see Maldonado and Plato demolishing each other
But if he went to NASCAR his antics could do serious damage.

In NASCAR he'd get his lights punched out. Or at least a helmet thrown at him.

I think that about sums up my thinking on Maldonado at the moment.

No fault whatsoever in your calm logic here ZA, but you are making a supposition about the events and you're not factoring in intent, which is the reason we're discussing him in the first place.

Factor out the two intentional uses of his car as a ramming device on a another driver's car all we'd have is an aggressive driver that could be too exuberant given that this is only his second F1 season. When you add the two events however it completely changes the picture and allows everyone to question all of the other incidents this year.

There is a pattern, and as it's been said, there is never an acknowledgement of culpability on his part.

No no, I absolutely did factor in the intent aspect of it, but in touring cars in particular you can use your car to barge another out of the way to an extent, many often do without any notice really being taken! Indeed, one of the reasons it's not noticed so much in saloon car racing in general is because of the weight distribution across the car meaning that the rear is nowhere near as likely to step out following contact or in cornering as it is in open seat racing where the vast majority of the weight is at the rear. Most barges, intentional or otherwise in touring cars don't result in a spin or a major incident as a result.

Also, when it comes to NASCAR, my thinking is that, again, the ordinary ciruits are virtually no different to a touring car track, and the ovals don't allow for big dives down the inside or outside to the same extent as there are no heavy braking zones, so any movement (unless a driver is suicidal!) naturally HAS to be more gradual. With the aid of spotters, I just don't think the results of Maldonado in NASCAR would be as bad as some have said.

Just my opinion of course.

[LRW]

two intentional uses of his car as a ramming device

You say that like it has been decided upon and confirmed as such in here, which it obviously has not. It's just an opinion, and a minority one at that. Tiny minority.

I would say a lot of people, not just on here (inc. former F1 drivers), have said that both the Monaco incident against Perez and the Spa incident last year against Lewis, very much looked like a deliberate and intentional moves.

So I would say a far from 'Tiny minority' share that opinion.

[What's Burning?]

two intentional uses of his car as a ramming device

You say that like it has been decided upon and confirmed as such in here, which it obviously has not. It's just an opinion, and a minority one at that. Tiny minority.

you're right it's my ipinion. I don't really care if my opinion is in the minority or the majority but I have seen enough racing to know that both of those instances mentioned againt Perez and againts Hamilton were clearly deliberate IMO. Others may choose to disagree but that's a head in the sand descision on their part, again IMO. Even given the oversteer or coming in too hot or any other excuse you can give, BOTH of those instances happened while there was no racing involved.

In life however, if you live by the sword, you know the rest. He'll piss off of the wrong guy soon enough or more hopefully wind up on a losing end of one of his tantrums and maybe even take himself out for some time.

I can't wait till the day he tussles with Alonso or Vettel to see what the response from Luca or Helmut will be.

[racechick]

They'll be a site stronger than when he turned on Lewis!!!! Its those two unnecessary uses of car as a weapon that now cloud my view of him. Accidents, yes they happen, but TWO deliberate moves for no gain, just out of tantrum. Nah.

[vaptin]

It he tussles with a Mercedes he'll be in trouble with Brawn and Haug sitting on him. Although him and Schumacher going wheel to wheel would be sure to be intense.

Alonso's got a good chance at the record for highest number of consecutive point scoring races, he'll be mad at Mald if he messes it up.

[madbrad]

Well I thought you meant this one with DiResta as one of the 2 deliberate ones. I also think the one against Perez in Monaco was deliberate but I'm not sure he meant to actually make contact, and I don't call that ramming so I didn't think you were counting that as one of the 2 deliberate times. The one with Hamilton, yeah it's a reach to say it was deliberate. I know the movement he made was deliberate but I don't think he intended to make contact there either. I think most people don't either. NOt that he wasn't using his car for something bad. With Perez, it was not in the race and he was mad and did something abhorrent. With Hamilton, he didn't have any beef with him, it was racing. No I don't mean it was a racing incident that he shouldn't be punished for. He can't seem to drive when there's pressure on him.

Now if Maldo and Montoya tangle, when the two of them don't take any blame, where will the blame go? I think the universe will implode.

[mnmracer]

Pastor Maldonado, what to think of him?
He's not making many friends among driver or fans with his antics, and I would certainly be one of the last to invite him to have a drink, but you have to give it to him, at times he is showing impressive speed as well.

Out of curiosity, I decided to tally how much his crashes, but also technical issues, have cost him in the championship table. Of course, it's not exact science and involves a lot of guessing, but it does give a bit of perspective on what Maldonado could have been doing if he fixed his on-track attitude.

:Australia
His crash on the last-lap cost him 6th place, or 8 points.

:Malaysia
Retired from p10 on the second-to-last lap, cost him 1 point.

:China
8th, nothing special happened.

:Bahrain
Gearbox penalty set him back to p21, and then had a puncture behind Rosberg and Alonso. Could have probably taken 6th behind Rosberg, or 8 points.

:Spain
Won the race from pole.

:Monaco
Ten-place penalty for Perez incident on top of gearbox change-penalty set him to the back of the grid. Then crashed into de la Rosa at the start. Judging by Senna's race, he could have probably taken 8th, or 6 points.

:Canada
Another gearbox penalty set him back to start from p22. Not convinced he would have scored points though -he didn't have the race pace.

:Europe
Was passing Hamilton for third, and if he had waited, would have no doubt gotten past later. 15 points for 3rd.

:Great Britain
Another collision with Perez. Again judging by Senna, 8th or 9th should have been possible. 2 points lost.

:Germany
Nothing out of the ordinary -simply lacking in pace.

:Hungary
Bumping into di Resta, he deserved the drive-through. He was not quite as fast as Senna today, but a 9th place finish with 2 points should have been possible.

52 points!
Instead of ranking 11th with 29 points, he would have been 6th ahead of Rosberg, with 81 points.

Again, this doesn't take into account the other drivers, but I thought it was an interesting notion, showing just how much of potential talent Maldonado is wasting.

[stonemonkey]

Well I thought you meant this one with DiResta as one of the 2 deliberate ones. I also think the one against Perez in Monaco was deliberate but I'm not sure he meant to actually make contact, and I don't call that ramming so I didn't think you were counting that as one of the 2 deliberate times. The one with Hamilton, yeah it's a reach to say it was deliberate. I know the movement he made was deliberate but I don't think he intended to make contact there either. I think most people don't either. NOt that he wasn't using his car for something bad. With Perez, it was not in the race and he was mad and did something abhorrent. With Hamilton, he didn't have any beef with him, it was racing. No I don't mean it was a racing incident that he shouldn't be punished for. He can't seem to drive when there's pressure on him.

Now if Maldo and Montoya tangle, when the two of them don't take any blame, where will the blame go? I think the universe will implode.

I think he meant with Hamilton in Spa last year, imo that and the incident in Monaco with Perez were deliberate, whether or not he intended contact is debatable but even if not then it still shows vindictiveness and lack of judgement in his driving. I don't think he intended to take Hamilton out in Valencia but again a lack in judgement and a pretty stupid move to try. A lot of the other incidents when looked at individually are racing incidents but they're all adding up.

[What's Burning?]

Just to ble clear guys, I'm not debating he's a fast driver. I'm not debating he's faster than his team mate and that there's potential there but in this sport the leash is short, whether he does it to himself or Williams does it for him, he won't stay long in the team and in F1 if his performance continues on its current trajectory.

Look at Grosjean and what he's been able to do when given a chance to come back into the sport... but I think Maldonado is well on his way to burning any and all bridges if he continues on the path he's on.

[LewEngBridewell]

I can't wait till the day he tussles with Alonso or Vettel to see what the response from Luca or Helmut will be.

Helmut Marko? If that hideous chap gets wind of Maldonado doing as much as racing 10 car-lengths behind his darling Seb, then the Venezuelan battering ram will simply not live to tell the tale.

[madbrad]

I do agree he has a serious problem and needs more severe punishment. But we can all agree that punishments are woefully inconsistent in F1.
But there have been guys in the past with the type of crash stats while defending or trying to pass, that he has, or even worse. Not much was done to them. In a couple years this will be remembered as a molehill rather than the mountain we're making of it.