FORUMula1.com

[f1ea]

Strategy isn't always McLaren's strong point. Ocassionally they play a blinder but more often than not they get it wrong. They wrecked lots of Lewis' races with poor strategy(amongst other things). This time it was Jenson. I heard a radio mesaage to Lewis saying we're going to plan B.
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I screamed. I think they heard me because they kept lewis on a two stopper. Phew!!

How did you know Plan B was not the 2-stop?

I liked Whitmarsh's post race interview today.

Martin Whitmarsh, team principal...

... gee those were some complex vocabulary there.......

In any case: SOLID win. I could only watch the 2nd p art of the race... but the last laps were really close. Kimi was right there... perhaps even faster. Hence... the solid, in solid drive from Lewis to keep the win

[JayGee]

The benefit of hindsight...

No, just foresight.
Do you play backgammon with the doubling dice?
The moment you offer a double, unless you have an overwhelming advantage and force a resignation, you give your opponent an advantage.
In F1, the moment a driver pits, the advantage goes to the other drivers. It is simple game theory.

[racechick]

Strategy isn't always McLaren's strong point. Ocassionally they play a blinder but more often than not they get it wrong. They wrecked lots of Lewis' races with poor strategy(amongst other things). This time it was Jenson. I heard a radio mesaage to Lewis saying we're going to plan B.
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I screamed. I think they heard me because they kept lewis on a two stopper. Phew!!

How did you know Plan B was not the 2-stop?

Because they'd already radioed Button to switch to plan B and put him onto the 3 stop. Lewis was doing fine on the two.

[scotty]

The benefit of hindsight...

No, just foresight.
Do you play backgammon with the doubling dice?
The moment you offer a double, unless you have an overwhelming advantage and force a resignation, you give your opponent an advantage.
In F1, the moment a driver pits, the advantage goes to the other drivers. It is simple game theory.

I don't play backgammon. However, i know motorsport.

The teams thought there might have been a risk of the tyres going off. They didn't. At Canada they did, which wasn't completely expected through all teams. Could have gone the same way today. Didn't this time, but might do another time. Simple as.

Easy to look back and say 'they should have done this and that' - like i say, benefit of hindsight!

[geetface9]

Nah, Budapest ain't the most boring circuit IMO. Last boring race there was 2004.

I agree budapest is generally entertaining, though I thought today's race was quite bland!! Especially given some of the races we've had the fortune to witness so far this season

[spankyham]

Really good race yet again. Watching the strategies unfold and watching the teams to see who would crack and who would stick was cool.

Lewis drove a great race. A lot of similarities to Fernando's drive in Germany a week ago. At times there were people catching him, but he managed them, his lap times and tires perfectly.

The Lotuses are seriously fast. Can't see it being very long before we have one of their cars win a race. Will it be Kimi or Romain? There was a very silly-season story before the start of this race linking Kimi with a move to Ferrari next year. After the race that rumor went from ridiculous to silly

McLaren's strategy was great for Lewis but they really messed up for Jenson - deep down I think they would be a little dark on themselves for not having both cars on the podium.

Red Bull pit wall cracked under pressure. Changing to 3 stoppers that late was simply wrong and was a gift to Fernando for his summer break.

Pressure continues to grow on Felipe.

Lewis has the upper hand in his negotiations with McLaren - Perhaps Red Bull moved too fast on Webber.

Mercedes - secretly looking for an F1 exit strategy

Sauber, like Ferrari, prove they have low speed traction problems. Sighs of relief coming from them and Maranello now that Hungary is over with no damage.

Pecking order on pure car speed as I see it:-
Lotus
McLaren
Red Bull
Ferrari/Sauber
Williams
who-gives-a-fat-rats-clacker

[What's Burning?]

Mercedes - secretly looking for an F1 exit strategy

I don't know how much of a secret it is, but the facade is cracking, I still haven't decided if the problem is with Mercedes or with Brawn however. It's clear that one great idea doesn't a season make and there has been ZERO car development at Mercedes. Whether it's a lack of money from Mercedes, commitment from Mercedes (same thing really) or talent at the team is up in the air but they're simply just going through the motions and at this point it's embarrassing the brand.

[JayGee]

The benefit of hindsight...

No, just foresight.
Do you play backgammon with the doubling dice?
The moment you offer a double, unless you have an overwhelming advantage and force a resignation, you give your opponent an advantage.
In F1, the moment a driver pits, the advantage goes to the other drivers. It is simple game theory.

I don't play backgammon. However, i know motorsport.

The teams thought there might have been a risk of the tyres going off. They didn't. At Canada they did, which wasn't completely expected through all teams. Could have gone the same way today. Didn't this time, but might do another time. Simple as.

Easy to look back and say 'they should have done this and that' - like i say, benefit of hindsight!

If you know motorsport you should know that the Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve in Canada is a totally different proposition.
If you had watched the Sky broadcast from Hungaroring you will have heard the pre-race discussion regarding the optimum pitstop strategy. Consensus was that three stops would be faster if there were no other cars, but would require overtaking in the third stint, which would be most unlikely.
Insight and foresight were there for all to see.
Track position was all-important and Button's second stop gave that up.

[What's Burning?]

The benefit of hindsight...

No, just foresight.
Do you play backgammon with the doubling dice?
The moment you offer a double, unless you have an overwhelming advantage and force a resignation, you give your opponent an advantage.
In F1, the moment a driver pits, the advantage goes to the other drivers. It is simple game theory.

I don't play backgammon. However, i know motorsport.

The teams thought there might have been a risk of the tyres going off. They didn't. At Canada they did, which wasn't completely expected through all teams. Could have gone the same way today. Didn't this time, but might do another time. Simple as.

Easy to look back and say 'they should have done this and that' - like i say, benefit of hindsight!

If you know motorsport you should know that the Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve in Canada is a totally different proposition.
If you had watched the Sky broadcast from Hungaroring you will have heard the pre-race discussion regarding the optimum pitstop strategy. Consensus was that three stops would be faster if there were no other cars, but would require overtaking in the third stint, which would be most unlikely.
Insight and foresight were there for all to see.
Track position was all-important and Button's second stop gave that up.

Not to get between such a fine philosophical discussion but yet teams make individual choices for them and not base them on the consensus of broadcasters. Why? Because broadcasters don't necessarily have the information about a team that that the team does. At some point in the decision a choice is made because at that moment in time it is a better decision than the alternative. Five minutes later, that decision could prove to have been wrong, but then again it's five minutes of more events transpiring to have influenced that decision.

If it truly was simply a matter of making a plan and executing on it, then Jenson would have brought the car in third place where he was 1/3 into the race.

[scotty]

If you know motorsport you should know that the Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve in Canada is a totally different proposition.
If you had watched the Sky broadcast from Hungaroring you will have heard the pre-race discussion regarding the optimum pitstop strategy. Consensus was that three stops would be faster if there were no other cars, but would require overtaking in the third stint, which would be most unlikely.
Insight and foresight were there for all to see.
Track position was all-important and Button's second stop gave that up.

As WB said the teams have huge banks of data to refer to that neither you nor Sky do. This merely proves what a black art the tyres are, and that even with all the data and collective intelligence of all the engineers things sometimes go wrong. So excuse me if i find it laughable when someone comes along and says they know better, when they just don't. Nothing personal.

[What's Burning?]

Oh and I keep forgetting to mention my biggest beef this weekend.

WTF?!?! It used to be my favorite looking F1 trophy and it was replaced by this piece of nondescript neck ties blowing in the wind excuse for a trophy???

[Hammer278]

Well...it's unique. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

[vaptin]

I thought it was kinda a boring race, the strategy might have been interesting if it had been possible to overtake, but it worked out like Monaco, track position was key, not having a quicker car.

Lotus almost got Grosjean in front of Hamilton but they had a slow stop, and it seems Grosjean's race pace is inconsistent, can't relay on him to deliver for those crucial few laps in clean air following the lead car pitting.

Redbull again, just seem to be frustrating themselves with either poor qualifying or a mistake in the race when really they have a very good car, Vettel in particular seems to have trouble adjusting from last years dominance and is making mistakes.

It still looks like the order can change dramatically between races, Ferrari were quite far back in this race, but McLaren had similar relative pace in Sliverstone. I think Alonso's consistency is more advantageous than normal in these circumstances, same for Lotus having two quick drivers but no race win.

[racechick]

Lewis also had a slow stop, and was only saved by the slow stop of Grosjean.
I agree about Alonso, he's looking strong for the championship at the moment.

[Nin-Chin]

Christian Horner is growing tired of constant questioning of his Red Bull's legality, saying the team should not "be criticised for being creative".

Following the engine mapping row at the German Grand Prix that saw the FIA clarifying a regulation in order to close of a loophole that Red Bull was exploiting, the team was accused of being at the centre of an investigation in to ride height at the Canadian Grand Prix. Following the race at the Hungaroring, Horner said that the team has never been found to have broken any regulations and that the team should be praised for the way that it interprets the rules.

"The bottom line is the results sheet comes out at the end of qualifying or the end of the race and the car complies with the regulations," Horner said. "All the rest is all b******t, at the end of the day it's all down to the FIA and the stewards to decide whether the car's legal or not. Every single time our car has been questioned by other teams it has always been compliant with the rules.

"Of course the nature of Formula One is that it's competitive, but the regulations are written in such a way that they are open to interpretation, and from HRT to Red Bull every single team interprets those rules otherwise you'd have all the cars that look identically the same. Part of our strength is our ingenuity and I don't think we should be criticised for being creative."

Having won the 2011 championships so dominantly, Horner said Red Bull was pleased with its current position in the standings heading in to the enforced two-week shutdown.

"We go in to the summer break 53 points in the lead in the constructors' championship and both our drivers are second and third in the drivers' championship. 225 points still available, nine races to go, it's going to be full on. So I think we'll definitely use this week before the shutdown to good effect and then it's a good opportunity for everybody within the company to recharge their batteries before a manic last three months."