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[Hammer278]

Lewis for me...

Really I'm shocked; I was sure you'd vote for Alonso!

I don't believe Lewis would be far out in the lead; he maybe vying for the lead; I don't believe he would have been dominating even without the lost points!

He won't be dominating, but he would be easily in the lead. None of which matters, since he isn't. All he can hope is for McLaren to stop f**king him up consistently in nearly every race weekend.

[racechick]

Lewis for me...

Really I'm shocked; I was sure you'd vote for Alonso!

I don't believe Lewis would be far out in the lead; he maybe vying for the lead; I don't believe he would have been dominating even without the lost points!

I think if you take the almost certain win at Spain, the botched pitstops that lost over 10 seconds each one..in one race!, leaving him out too long the first race, over caution in the rainy race, broken jack leading to him having to push his tyres to get back to third instead of fighting for the win (she gasps for breath!!) There are more. Im not counting the gearbox, that was just one of those things. But take that lot, Jeez just take half of that lot, and without it he'd have a substantial lead.

Funny you mention Alonso.....if Lewis doesnt do it for whatever reason my moneys on him.

[scotty]

But take that lot, Jeez just take half of that lot, and without it he'd have a substantial lead.

Yeah... if you completely ignored other driver's misfortunes!

[racechick]

But take that lot, Jeez just take half of that lot, and without it he'd have a substantial lead.

Yeah... if you completely ignored other driver's misfortunes!

Im not sure any driver has had the cockups from the team that Lewis has had to suffer, but if they have take them into account as well by all means. lewis would still have a substantial lead.

[Hammer278]

But take that lot, Jeez just take half of that lot, and without it he'd have a substantial lead.

Yeah... if you completely ignored other driver's misfortunes!

What 'cockups' has Ferrari made this season for Alonso?

What 'cockups' have Redbull done for Vettel (apart from Valencia)?

Plain to see you're firmly on the Hamilton 'dislike' list (for whatever reason) which is fair enough, but jeez admit the guy has had more than his share of bad luck already this season.

[scotty]

FFS seriously? Do you lot even notice what happens to the other drivers in F1? I guess not! I know Hamilton has had issues (amusing to see you already getting on the fanboy/hater angle Hammer - says it all), but so have others on several occassions each....

[LewEngBridewell]

Both Ferrari and RBR made massive balls-ups in Montreal for a start. Not that those mistakes cost Alonso / Seb the win though. LH still had better pace, which was evident from the first stint.

[racechick]

Of course I notice what happens to other drivers!! Tell me a driver that has had points squandered this season in anything like the proportion of Hamilton? Its been just about every bloody race!! And im not talking mechanical failures Im talking cockups. So who else comes close???

[scotty]

If you are talking cockups then no doubt Hamilton has lost out big time. But what i'm saying is that he isn't the only one to lose quite a few points in that way - Lew gave just one example of that (and i really cba to go through a massive list i'm afraid). There's a decent article on the BBC site by Andrew Benson about some of this. He gives a reasoned point that both Alonso and Hamilton lost exactly 27 points each this season through "operational issues", ie strategic errors, pitstop mistakes and such.

No doubt Schumacher has had the worst luck so far this season though, with many mechanical DNF's. Some 60ish points lost through no fault of his own.

But it is what it is, and Alonso leads by many points. Still early days mind you... if one title challenging driver were to take back to back wins in this next phase of the season, they'd be in an incredibly strong position.

[Hammer278]

So you talk about cockups by Hamilton this season losing him big time.

Tell me more about how he has cocked up in any race/qualifying this season?

And yes, sometimes I do go by the hater/dislike angle since I've learned its not really wise to carry a discussion too long with the likes of this group. Your posts imply trying to put down Lewis whenever possible while being very civil about it...something to appreciate of course, but it doesn't mean you're being objective at the same time.

[What's Burning?]

No one has to be objective here. The point is to allow everyone their own opinion regardless of whether we like them or not and point out where the facts simply don't support their opinion. I don't see eye to eye with Scotty on a number of things, but that doesn't get in the way of us having a good working relationship. That does have a lot to do with the civility, so I'm glad you're pointing that out. There would be less overall arguments here if everyone was like that. I hate arguments, I love discussion, especially proving the other guy wrong.

[scotty]

Have i actually put Hamilton down anywhere here? Nope, so i don't know why it is coming down to this, some of you are just creating stuff from nothing. Have i in fact given Hamilton credit where due? Yep - the evidence is all over the forum in a whole bunch of posts i've made in the past. I dislike plenty of other drivers anyway, so there can really be no accusation no special treatment from me It's actually all these butthurt reactions that piss me off really, more than anything else - cause my original point is entirely justified, as several other drivers HAVE lost a whole chunk of points this season from things that weren't really their fault.

[What's Burning?]

butthurt? really?

[racechick]

Have i actually put Hamilton down anywhere here? Nope, so i don't know why it is coming down to this, some of you are just creating stuff from nothing. Have i in fact given Hamilton credit where due? Yep - the evidence is all over the forum in a whole bunch of posts i've made in the past. I dislike plenty of other drivers anyway, so there can really be no accusation no special treatment from me It's actually all these butthurt reactions that piss me off really, more than anything else - cause my original point is entirely justified, as several other drivers HAVE lost a whole chunk of points this season from things that weren't really their fault.

But of the title contenders, nowhere near the amount Lewis has lost.

[Hammer278]

Have i actually put Hamilton down anywhere here? Nope, so i don't know why it is coming down to this, some of you are just creating stuff from nothing. Have i in fact given Hamilton credit where due? Yep - the evidence is all over the forum in a whole bunch of posts i've made in the past. I dislike plenty of other drivers anyway, so there can really be no accusation no special treatment from me It's actually all these butthurt reactions that piss me off really, more than anything else - cause my original point is entirely justified, as several other drivers HAVE lost a whole chunk of points this season from things that weren't really their fault.

I don't see the need for anyone to get err, "butthurt" over opinions which don't reflect the facts really. Our point was that without Lewis' misfortunes, he'd easily be leading the standings. And YES, obviously we'd be counting others' misfortunes as well. All very well and good for you to admit everyone has had misfortunes, but you seem to be conveniently avoiding the fact that Hamilton has had the major brunt of it this season.

BTW, I'm not including Schumacher....I'm talking about the WDC contenders. I just don't see Schumacher as 1 in any shape or form, who knows he might prove me wrong and win the WDC while fairies and goblins might appear miraculously to celebrate with him on the podium.