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[spankyham]

I got to admit I was kind of surprised when I saw that press release from Pirelli backing Schumi to win the Valencia GP. So I did some research.....

I've uncovered the reason for Pirelli's new found belief in Shumi. Apparently he will be driving a highly modified car at Valencia this weekend which the team feels has completely overcome tire wear issues.


I can also reveal the secret to the excellent wear the Sauber is getting out of it's Pirelli's

[What's Burning?]

To be fair to Pirelli, they are making the tyres as per the FiA's instructions. It's just a pity that what they've been told to make is a farce.

I disagree.

I notice it wasn't a "farce" last year? Pirelli supplied tyres then too, you know.

That's not a valid comparison... last year everyone raced for second best. Not as much glory in that.

[madbrad]

You're wrong. I don't agree to disagree. I disagree about disagreeing.

[madbrad]

...... <snip> I am not lauding Grosjean and Perez. They were lucky.<snip>.......

I dont get how were they were lucky, exactly?

Perez and Grosjean planned a one stop, as they thought they could make the tyres last. They then went out, and drove consistently enough to make the tyres last, and passed Alonso and Vettle who had pushed too hard and failed to make their own tyres last.

Thats not luck. Thats one strategy being better than the other for those conditions and track.

It's luck when it happens to someone other than the drivers your support.

Wait that's not fair. I don't have a driver and Grosjean and Perez could be as much my drivers as any of them. They benefitted from luck when the guys in front lost their tires.

[madbrad]

The point I'm making is the regulations are the same for everyone, so it's a level playing field. More so even, since it's allowed teams not quite on the cusp competitiveness in qualifying to make up for it on race day because they have hit upon a sweet spot of performance where their car gets the most out of the rubber and I have no problem with that.

This depends on your definition of levelling the playing field. They are the same for everyone yes but they benefit the crappy cars to a much greater degree. That's why they were made. In that sense it's not level. They're designed to to "level the playing field" but what they do is help crappy cars and drivers catch up and be near the big dogs. I think it's artificial. The natural order of things using skill and merit would have them far back. It would still be a level playing field then too, since the regs would be the same for everyone then too.

[racechick]

You're wrong. I don't agree to disagree. I disagree about disagreeing.

That must be why Im agreeing with everyone

[What's Burning?]

The point I'm making is the regulations are the same for everyone, so it's a level playing field. More so even, since it's allowed teams not quite on the cusp competitiveness in qualifying to make up for it on race day because they have hit upon a sweet spot of performance where their car gets the most out of the rubber and I have no problem with that.

This depends on your definition of levelling the playing field. They are the same for everyone yes but they benefit the crappy cars to a much greater degree. That's why they were made. In that sense it's not level. They're designed to to "level the playing field" but what they do is help crappy cars and drivers catch up and be near the big dogs. I think it's artificial. The natural order of things using skill and merit would have them far back. It would still be a level playing field then too, since the regs would be the same for everyone then too.

It's artificial, but that's the the rules are, so what are your options? Stop watching the sport, or enjoy the fact that it's as exciting an F! season as we've had in years?

I don't understand what you don't understand about it being a level playing field. I mean it is your opinion not to like it, but it isn't as if it's not level. They don't in any way make it easier for crappy cars, that's simply you rationalizing your pov to justify your opinion, which is okay by me. The thing is that if it's easier for a crappy car to pass a better car due to DRS, that better car should then have it even easier to take the spot back... the same as defending with KERS, or if the good car happens upon the right tire call, then they're not going to lose out to a crappy car, no matter if that crappy car is on a good tire strategy as well.

We don't have to come to any type of agreement on this, so we agree on that . But since there's nothing I can do about the things I don't like, I'll just sit back and enjoy the show as it is today. Rules change every year, eventually they'll change and come your way I'm sure.

[What's Burning?]

...... <snip> I am not lauding Grosjean and Perez. They were lucky.<snip>.......

I dont get how were they were lucky, exactly?

Perez and Grosjean planned a one stop, as they thought they could make the tyres last. They then went out, and drove consistently enough to make the tyres last, and passed Alonso and Vettle who had pushed too hard and failed to make their own tyres last.

Thats not luck. Thats one strategy being better than the other for those conditions and track.

It's luck when it happens to someone other than the drivers your support.

Wait that's not fair. I don't have a driver and Grosjean and Perez could be as much my drivers as any of them. They benefitted from luck when the guys in front lost their tires.

So there was no skill involved in both of those drivers being able to get the most out of their tires, while Vettel and Alonso couldn't? The teams made the call to go for a one stop, that was the strategy... some drivers based on their skill and the cars inherent ability were able to succeed with that strategy, others failed miserably at it. That's not luck, that's understanding what you and your car can do.

[madbrad]

I'm saying it would be level with or without those regs, because either way the rules would be the same for everyone, but in one scenario an advantage is given to the crappy teams and drivers and in the other it is not. So that in some sense is not level. You don't have to agree but do you know what I mean?

And yes I am saying Grosjean and Perez have no skill! C'mon seriously you want to twist my words to say I'm saying that?

[vaptin]

But had Alonso and Vettel pitted earelier they would have finished 2nd and third probably, they knew the risks.

Why is it luck as opposed to good car design and race driving?

[andrew]

To be fair to Pirelli, they are making the tyres as per the FiA's instructions. It's just a pity that what they've been told to make is a farce.

I disagree.

I notice it wasn't a "farce" last year? Pirelli supplied tyres then too, you know.

The tyres are to a different spec. this season than last season. They were less fragile so the effect of the tyres was less noticable.

[madbrad]

But had Alonso and Vettel pitted earelier they would have finished 2nd and third probably, they knew the risks.

Why is it luck as opposed to good car design and race driving?

Because you touch yourself at night.

[cheekybru]

I think the problem is not the people who follow the sport but for the people who do not, all they are going to be getting is drivers saying "Pirelli are poo"
If I was Pirelli I would not be happy with that

Agree