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[Hammer278]

I think we agree on many things, just not on Jenson Button.

[racechick]

The simple solution would be to ditch the stupid centralised garage philosophy and have two distinct sides of the garage, then no eggs need to be places in any basket, both drivers have equal opportunities within the team, the centralised philosophy can never work unless there is distinct #1 and #2 drivers, which McLaren deny is the case!

Agree 100%. Especially since their driving styles are so obviously different, the centralized concept gives McLaren a lot more to lose for both drivers than to gain.

Me too. Absolute common sense! Give both drivers a better chance.

[The Second Coming]

The simple solution would be to ditch the stupid centralised garage philosophy and have two distinct sides of the garage, then no eggs need to be places in any basket, both drivers have equal opportunities within the team, the centralised philosophy can never work unless there is distinct #1 and #2 drivers, which McLaren deny is the case!

Agree 100%. Especially since their driving styles are so obviously different, the centralized concept gives McLaren a lot more to lose for both drivers than to gain.

Me too. Absolute common sense! Give both drivers a better chance.

I think that only matters with some teams...Sauber, Williams and Force India to name a few...where both struggle if the car is bad or succeed if the car is good. I don't think it matters with McLaren whether Jenson is #1 (so he says) or they have two #1s. Lewis will get every ounce out of the car, good or bad, no matter what...centralised or two distinct sides. It's still ultimately going to be up to the other driver to step up regardless of the system (and regs, tyres, etc.). How long has it been since McLaren built an absolutely dominant car (ala Red Bull)? So this is really where the oil gets separated from the water.

I'm just saying...

[racechick]

Button is going to try Lewis' set-up at Valencia. To try to get on top of the tyres. he realises he wont be as fast as Lewis with that set upas theyhave such contrasting styles, but he can use it as a starting point to then make changes to suit him better. This came from a debrief with the engineers.
"I've debriefred with the engineers, and we'll run through the weekend and ideas for the race and also the simulator. The first thing you do is set the car up like the other, and thats what we'll do initially".

[myownalias]

I think that only matters with some teams...Sauber, Williams and Force India to name a few...where both struggle if the car is bad or succeed if the car is good. I don't think it matters with McLaren whether Jenson is #1 (so he says) or they have two #1s. Lewis will get every ounce out of the car, good or bad, no matter what...centralised or two distinct sides. It's still ultimately going to be up to the other driver to step up regardless of the system (and regs, tyres, etc.). How long has it been since McLaren built an absolutely dominant car (ala Red Bull)? So this is really where the oil gets separated from the water.

I don't believe that anyone is saying that Jenson will be faster than Lewis if there were two distinct sides of the garage but it would allow Jenson to show his true potential and be up there at the sharp end. Lewis' balls out style means he'll be initially faster but come the end of the race, I believe Jenson will be close or maybe even ahead using a different strategy.

[Hammer278]

Button is going to try Lewis' set-up at Valencia. To try to get on top of the tyres. he realises he wont be as fast as Lewis with that set upas theyhave such contrasting styles, but he can use it as a starting point to then make changes to suit him better. This came from a debrief with the engineers.
"I've debriefred with the engineers, and we'll run through the weekend and ideas for the race and also the simulator. The first thing you do is set the car up like the other, and thats what we'll do initially".

Lol I foresee some spins from JB in practice and maybe qualifying...before he realizes what a crazy thing he's doing and adds a lot more wing on the rear.

[CookinFlat6]

The simple solution would be to ditch the stupid centralised garage philosophy and have two distinct sides of the garage, then no eggs need to be places in any basket, both drivers have equal opportunities within the team, the centralised philosophy can never work unless there is distinct #1 and #2 drivers, which McLaren deny is the case!

Bingo, this is the root of the mediocrity from Woking in the last 3 years

You can't have both sides working toward a generic driver made by combining these two boys, either one driver will skew everything in his direction (Button last year) or the car will evolve in the fire took of the better driver (this year)
The weaker driver will eventually suffer no matter how well he is able to charm the workers and hijack resources

Button needs a team where everything is geared toward him, but he cannot then have a teammate with more adaptable raw talent as eventually development will follow that guy

Maybe McLaren will keep button and swap Lewis for De la Rosa, a driver that can help the car work for Button

Wether Button will then be able to take on the big boys will depend on the car remaining perfectly balanced and faster than the rest

[myownalias]

Wether Button will then be able to take on the big boys will depend on the car remaining perfectly balanced and faster than the rest

I don't believe that is the case that Button needs an outright faster car, a balance car yes, but I think he proved last season that he can compete when not in the fastest car; he won three races when the McLaren was clearly not the best car of the field. Ditching the "centralised" system will allow him to build a setup that will work better for him, Button/Hamilton are team mates but also rivals, having two distinct sides of the garage will no doubt push both drivers on with more competition, not just the drivers but the mechanics/engineers as well!

[Injen]

I think that only matters with some teams...Sauber, Williams and Force India to name a few...where both struggle if the car is bad or succeed if the car is good. I don't think it matters with McLaren whether Jenson is #1 (so he says) or they have two #1s. Lewis will get every ounce out of the car, good or bad, no matter what...centralised or two distinct sides. It's still ultimately going to be up to the other driver to step up regardless of the system (and regs, tyres, etc.). How long has it been since McLaren built an absolutely dominant car (ala Red Bull)? So this is really where the oil gets separated from the water.

I don't believe that anyone is saying that Jenson will be faster than Lewis if there were two distinct sides of the garage but it would allow Jenson to show his true potential and be up there at the sharp end. Lewis' balls out style means he'll be initially faster but come the end of the race, I believe Jenson will be close or maybe even ahead using a different strategy.

Lol, desperation thinking comes to mind especially with this line "I believe Jenson will be close or maybe even ahead using a different strategy" it going to be funny reading what your line is after Valencia.

Anyway, here is a button quote for ya,remember this one.

" “I hate rear instability on corner entry,” said Button during his Brawn title-winning season of 2009. “It’s not something I can deal with well. If I look at the telemetry and compare what Rubens [Barrichello, his team-mate that season] does in those situations, I can’t do that. If he has rear instability he just throws on a lot of steering lock very suddenly, making the car understeer, and balancing it just right so that by the time the understeer’s reducing you’re into the corner and the transient instability is gone, or has been sort of damped out. I’ve seen it time and time again on the telemetry. When I try to do that, I just lose all feeling for the car; I cannot judge how much to do it by, it just feels so alien.”

I can't wait for Valencia when Buttons new idea does not work lol,setting up the car identical to Lewis spells nail in the coffin for Button,it's going to be fun to watch lol.

[Hammer278]

Let's not simply hate on the guy, McLaren need him to at least get points every race to keep in the hunt for WCC.

I hope Button sorts himself out, it's going to be embarassing if he keeps repeating what he did at Montreal.

[racechick]

Wether Button will then be able to take on the big boys will depend on the car remaining perfectly balanced and faster than the rest

I don't believe that is the case that Button needs an outright faster car, a balance car yes, but I think he proved last season that he can compete when not in the fastest car; he won three races when the McLaren was clearly not the best car of the field. Ditching the "centralised" system will allow him to build a setup that will work better for him, Button/Hamilton are team mates but also rivals, having two distinct sides of the garage will no doubt push both drivers on with more competition, not just the drivers but the mechanics/engineers as well!

This
Lewis has undoubtably suffered so far this season because of this system and I suspect Button is now starting to as well.

[andrew]

I doubt that simply ditching the centralised garage idea would be enough. McLaren likes to tell us how much they treat each driver equally and everything is open. Changing this could be quite a big shift in the way the team rolls. Plus what may work for one team may not work for another. Also, for a team that wants to win the constructors championship, pitting each side of the garage against each other could prove too risky. Might end up just a bit too competitive within one team.

[Injen]

Let's not simply hate on the guy, McLaren need him to at least get points every race to keep in the hunt for WCC.

I hope Button sorts himself out, it's going to be embarassing if he keeps repeating what he did at Montreal.

Why shouldn't i rub it in and enjoy buttons pathetic racing,he had no problem digging Lewis last year with snide comments.

Button has been found out,you can only fool people for so long,now he has lost his swagger in the paddock i find it funny as hell.

Remember the non stop hounding Lewis got last year from people on these forums and the media,oh have times changed lol.

Remember this line from Whitmarsh

"What we've got are very interesting dynamics in this team, and that is that Jenson is very experienced, super smart, great at using his tyres. In truth he's working and operating the team but he really wants to beat his team-mate. I think Lewis is learning as well"

This is the same guy who has crashed twice and been lapped by his teammate and started 8th in front of his teammate who started last but still beat Button,it's beyond pathetic from the so called Mclaren number one lmfao.

Then we remember another quote from Button when Lewis was down.

"The best way for a team to win the World Championship would be probably to have a No 1 driver, and a No 2 driver who is happy to be a No 2"

Really Jenson,i guest you still feel the same old chap,i doubt it lol.

He is a snake and deserves everything he is getting.

The only bit I feel sorry for Button for is that others hyped him up in the paddock, like Benson, Humphrey, DC, even Whitmarsh. I think Button naively started believing the hype that he was better than Hamilton. Now he's come back to reailty it makes it even more difficult to deal with the problems and that's when you start saying the lowest of the low "I am lost and confused". No competitor should be giving his rivals that scent.

[The Second Coming]

I think that only matters with some teams...Sauber, Williams and Force India to name a few...where both struggle if the car is bad or succeed if the car is good. I don't think it matters with McLaren whether Jenson is #1 (so he says) or they have two #1s. Lewis will get every ounce out of the car, good or bad, no matter what...centralised or two distinct sides. It's still ultimately going to be up to the other driver to step up regardless of the system (and regs, tyres, etc.). How long has it been since McLaren built an absolutely dominant car (ala Red Bull)? So this is really where the oil gets separated from the water.

I don't believe that anyone is saying that Jenson will be faster than Lewis if there were two distinct sides of the garage but it would allow Jenson to show his true potential and be up there at the sharp end. Lewis' balls out style means he'll be initially faster but come the end of the race, I believe Jenson will be close or maybe even ahead using a different strategy.

The reality is, the team still have two distinct garages, it's just the data and technical pool that is centralized. In the end, like Lewis, Jenson's engineering crew need to work with him based on what he needs to get the car performing to his likeness...including how it affects his ability to turn on the tyres and keep them optimized. Problem is, he can't tell them what he wants/needs so now the driver is scratching his head and so is his engineer. I think Buttons fans would be cheering if your scenario were the case but we're seeing the reality...Jenson isn't capable of being at the sharp end now that Red Bull and Ferrari have caught up and all the top drivers are on form—he hasn't shown that for the last five races, Spain and Canada being the clearest picture. If tyres is the excuse, the big guns have figured it out enough after 6 to 7 races and Jenson is still scrathcing his head back with the bottom quarter of the field. If he does rebound and make his way into the top 5 or 6 consistently, then good on him but I've lost my eternal optimism some time ago.

I'm just saying...

[Injen]

Wether Button will then be able to take on the big boys will depend on the car remaining perfectly balanced and faster than the rest

I don't believe that is the case that Button needs an outright faster car, a balance car yes, but I think he proved last season that he can compete when not in the fastest car; he won three races when the McLaren was clearly not the best car of the field. Ditching the "centralised" system will allow him to build a setup that will work better for him, Button/Hamilton are team mates but also rivals, having two distinct sides of the garage will no doubt push both drivers on with more competition, not just the drivers but the mechanics/engineers as well!

This
Lewis has undoubtably suffered so far this season because of this system and I suspect Button is now starting to as well.

I would hate to think what happens when he really suffers then?

The MP4-27 leads the WDC, the car is fast, tricky to drive maybe but it's fast in the right hands(Lewis's), just like the Ferrari. Jenson needs to step up,it's as simple as that.