FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Chris_1701]

Hi folks, my name's Chris (yeah, no ) and I joined yesterday.

I've been watching Formula 1 now since around the early 90's, all the way back in the day when Mansell and Senna were battling it out for position and sparks were flying both on and off the track. Anyway, I've now gotten used to the way the BBC shows F1 on TV this year, half live and the other highlights, and one thing, or person I should say, has bothered me quite a bit: Narain Karthikeyan.

http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2012/805.html

Now, I know he's driving a poor spec car in comparison to the big 3, one that's slow and keeps the traffic backed up when they're coming round to lap him, but is it at all possible that he could actually move up the field at some point this season? He's always qualifying 23rd or 24th and either doesn't finish the race because of car problems or he finishes last. Ok, so he finished 15th in Monaco (my favourite race of all time, then the Singapore night race) but there were 9 DNF's/crash outs/failures and he was still last!! I have nothing but respect and admiration for what those guys do, but aren't they all supposed to be running in the same formula?! They might as well give Mclaren, Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes a reverse gear and tell them to go backwards. I think something really needs to be done about these 'back markers' as all they seem to do is create 'moving chicanes', they don't even look fast when a mid-fielder comes along.

Other than that, it's been an interesting season so far. Let's just hope the rest is just as good.

Chris

[vaptin]

He is a lot slower than his team mate who was ditched by Sauber in 2010 I think.

But I think he brings in money to the team through sponsorship.

If the FIA stabilised the rules the new teams might be in a better position.

HRT themselves seem to be overtaking the Maurssias now with De La Rosa.

[zurich_allan]

Welcome to the forum, hope you have a long and enjoyable stay!

BUT:

I find this attitude very odd from someone who has watched F1 since the early 90's. If that is the case then you know as well as everyone else who has watched F1 since then that had HRT with their current pace been racing at that time, it is highly likely that they would actually score a point or two every now and then. You can laugh all you want, but it IS true. This is pretty much inarguable as they on average are lapped only between one and 3 time in a race, with 2 the most common number. Even in the old top 6 points scoring system it was actually common to have points scorers two laps down until about 1994.

In those days you had teams like Simtek and Forti who could be lapped 6, 8, 10 times in a race, now THAT'S a mobile chicane. Lapping a car twice in an entire race a mobile chicane? Or four times if you count both from the team? And that's on the assumption that neither of them stops due to reliability. No, I'm afraid not, that's simply a perpetuating myth that factually doesn't stand up under even the most basic scrutiny.

It's near bulletproof reliability among top teams that causes this incorrect perception that is held (generally) among newer fans to the sport (those that have come on board since, say 2002), not the actual poor pace of the backmarkers or anything that can actually be labelled as factual.

[Chris_1701]

De La Rosa had a seat with McLaren some years ago as a driver (up until the end of the 06' season), then went to testing for them, so it stands to reason he'd be good for a new team to have, having had time and gaining experience in a faster car.

I agree, if the FIA sorted out the rules, then they would be in a better position, not just the big 3. Formula 1 is about all the drivers competing on the same level, but at present, I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 new teams are driving late 2011 spec cars. The minute changes to a car can mean the difference between a first place position and a second, it's that close these days. But if a team are using previous season cars, then they are never going to go up the table. Which team has only 80 odd people in it? I'm sure that was either HRT or Marussia. 80 people?! This is 2012, not 1962!! Teams aren't operated out of owners garages these days, they have large facilities with loads of space. Then again, there's only so many people you can squeeze onto a plane, particularly if you happen to work for McLaren (I'm a McLaren supporter, by the way).

Chris

[Chris_1701]

Welcome to the forum, hope you have a long and enjoyable stay!

BUT:

I find this attitude very odd from someone who has watched F1 since the early 90's. If that is the case then you know as well as everyone else who has watched F1 since then that had HRT with their current pace been racing at that time, it is highly likely that they would actually score a point or two every now and then. You can laugh all you want, but it IS true. This is pretty much inarguable as they on average are lapped only between one and 3 time in a race, with 2 the most common number. Even in the old top 6 points scoring system it was actually common to have points scorers two laps down until about 1994.

In those days you had teams like Simtek and Forti who could be lapped 6, 8, 10 times in a race, now THAT'S a mobile chicane. Lapping a car twice in an entire race a mobile chicane? Or four times if you count both from the team? And that's on the assumption that neither of them stops due to reliability. No, I'm afraid not, that's simply a perpetuating myth that factually doesn't stand up under even the most basic scrutiny.

It's near bulletproof reliability among top teams that causes this incorrect perception that is held (generally) among newer fans to the sport (those that have come on board since, say 2002), not the actual poor pace of the backmarkers or anything that can actually be labelled as factual.

Thanks for the welcome.

If HRT had been running with their current pace back in the 90's, then it's safe to assume they'd have had the power and the pace to score some points. I say I've been watching it since the early 90's (I was born in 83', so I'm not exactly 'young'), but I've only been really watching it since the late 90's, since I was at school during the mid 90's and didn't get to watch it much. I'm just calling it as I see it, to be honest. Their pace on qualifying day is usually a couple of seconds off the mid fielders times, so if the Mercedes of Rosberg or Schumacher are doing 1:16.100, then the HRT's are usually going at least one or two seconds slower.

Unfortunately, my analysis of what goes on in Formula 1 is better while I'm watching it than when it's been a few days. I try to keep up with what's going on as best as I can, but at the end of the day, people see things differently. It might have been easier back in the 60's, a lot more fatalities, especially during what a documentary called 'The Killing Years', but at least things were simpler. This might be the new 'golden age of Formula 1', but it's downright chaos sometimes.

Chris

[Hammer278]

I don't know...if people could tolerate teams like Minardi and Super Aguri, I don't see how HRT is very much different. Especially the way they always seem to overtake a much better funded team (Marussia) as the season progresses which I quite enjoy.

[myownalias]

I don't know...if people could tolerate teams like Minardi and Super Aguri, I don't see how HRT is very much different. Especially the way they always seem to overtake a much better funded team (Marussia) as the season progresses which I quite enjoy.

The difference with Minardi (not Super Aguri as they only lasted 1 season and 4 races) is that they brought a lot of great drivers to the sport, Fernando Alonso started his career in a Minardi before being poached by Renault or was it Benetton? HRT hire old drivers with limited options or hire pay drivers like Karthikeyan and do very little to offer opportunities for up and coming drivers, the exception is Bruno Senna, who has hardly shone in F1 and my guess is that Senna was hired as a prominent name to boost the HRT's brand for sponsorship!

[What's Burning?]

I haven't given this much thought, as long as they move out of the way of lead drivers as they're being lapped. Narais isn't a talent, because even in a slow car, a talented driver would out qualify and out place their teamate. IMO HRT have earned the right to be in the sport (whether you like it or not) and met all current regulations and entry hurdles. I'm sure there's Narain fans out there and HRT fans out there, in short it's an underfunded underdog team that seemingly has beaten a better funded team two years going now and some will always root for underdorgs.

Given their situation today, all it would take is ONE innovation to move them into the midfield contention. (I know... what an optimist right?)

[andrew]

He's only in F1 thanks to a huge bag of gold from TATA.

Says it all really.

[vlad]

Tata in my language means daddy... It comes to the same thing, after all...

[Hammer278]

Tata in my language means daddy... It comes to the same thing, after all...

Tata in kiddy english means 'byebye' doesn't it? So, there's some easy puns we could come up with when discussing Narain and his sponsor...

[vlad]

But that all doesn't change the fact that he's the slowest man out there. Personally, I think that Chandhok is a much better driver than he is (when it comes to India).

[andrew]

Ta ta meaning goodbye? Never heard that one.

Ta ra I've heard but never ta ta.

But that all doesn't change the fact that he's the slowest man out there. Personally, I think that Chandhok is a much better driver than he is (when it comes to India).

True that.

[LewEngBridewell]

If Massa and Karthikeyen were in the same car, who would win?

Hmmmmmm

[Chris_1701]

If Massa and Karthikeyen were in the same car, who would win?

Hmmmmmm

Depends, if Lewis Hamilton was racing against them, I don't think Massa would want to be in Karthikeyan's car.

Sorry, I thought you meant Massa driving Karthikeyan's car.

Chris