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[The Second Coming]

Jenson is more careful with his tyres

Not last race he wasnt. lewis was the only two stopper.

You do realize it takes more than one race to establish a trend, right? yes, it shows improvement, but the fact that Jenson has historically managed his tired better than Lewis is not suddenly reversed.

Yes, Im aware how trends are established. What Im not convinced of though is the fact that Lewis cant manage his tyres.

He was complaining and struggling in Bahrain and China too. Everyone is focusing on Spain because he's hit rock bottom—struggling with high fuel, low fuel, soft tires and hard tyres. That's trending...downward.

[bud]

struggling in China? his pace wasn't that bad if not for a botched pit stop he may have won there.

Still dunno why Lewis fans are such arses towards Jenson...

[racechick]

Well I'm not proud of feeling a little glee when Button suffers. Ive explained why it is.

[acosmichippo]

Yeah, f*** Whitmarh. DOWN WITH JENSON.

[racechick]

You said it. Its not at all fair, but Jenson is reaping what Whitmarsh has sown.

[andrew]

[myownalias]

Agreed, when hes going flat out his tires go down faster than jensons, thats because hes going faster than jenson lol, i really dont get people who say he cant look after them, and i think spain proves he can with the best of them, considering before the race a pirelli guy said a 2 stopper would be "impossible"

But is Lewis going faster because Jenson is conserving tyres for later in the race? As i said many times, modern F1 is as much about tyre strategy as racing, sometimes it pays to be a little slower!

[CookinFlat6]

There purely no proof that Jenson is any better with tyres than Lewis. It's a myth propagated by lazy people like BbC commentators who have to keep things simple to reach the majority
The team have said there has been no difference in usage over the last couple of years, it's just easy and lazy to say Lewis is a one trick pony and eats tyres whereas Jenson is a genius at managing tyres

There is a difference between adapting to tyres, switching them on, using them properly vs just making them last

Lewis has proven that when he needs to he can choose to make his tyres last etc, Jenson hasn't proven he can do anything special with tyres beyond driving like he is auditioning for a part in 'Driving Miss Daisy'

There's only one true one trick pony and the clue is how often he says 'I can't find the balance'

[Hammer278]

There purely no proof that Jenson is any better with tyres than Lewis. It's a myth propagated by lazy people like BbC commentators who have to keep things simple to reach the majority
The team have said there has been no difference in usage over the last couple of years, it's just easy and lazy to say Lewis is a one trick pony and eats tyres whereas Jenson is a genius at managing tyres

Exactly what I've been repeating on here for the past 2 years....

[myownalias]

There purely no proof that Jenson is any better with tyres than Lewis. It's a myth propagated by lazy people like BbC commentators who have to keep things simple to reach the majority
The team have said there has been no difference in usage over the last couple of years, it's just easy and lazy to say Lewis is a one trick pony and eats tyres whereas Jenson is a genius at managing tyres

Exactly what I've been repeating on here for the past 2 years....

Lewis has only this year learned about conserving tyres better, previously going hell for leather, giving 110%, sliding the car wears tyres much quicker. But really until the Pirelli years (2011/12) there was no need to preserve tyres as the Bridgestones were pretty hard wearing, Pirelli were given the contract under the proviso that they create fast degrading tyres to 'improve' the spectacle!

[racechick]

Im no technical expert, so maybe I should leave this particular debate to those who are better equipped to deal it. But I'll have a go.

Under Bridgestone's you could still benefit in some situations by making the tyres last...going for different strategies, jumping cars. But these tyres wore down gradually and it really was a case of feeling and nursing the tyres. I dont know that Lewis couldnt do this? He possibly didnt choose this option very often because his skill was in shorter faster sprints.

The last two years the tyres havent just worn down, its to with the chemical reaction and getting the heat right, turning them on as well as preserving them. But then they suddenly go and no matter how good either driver is when they go you loose buckets off time in one lap. Thats a lottery you dont particularly want to get caught out with, so I guess the skill is delaying the fall from the cliff as long as possible. Now Mclaren have said that when they look at the tyres that come off the cars there's no difference between the wear from either driver. Lewis has always denied that he cant save his tyres when he needs to, he proved it at Spain but Im sure there were cases last year when he did so as well (Im sorry I cant remember spacifically....anyone know ?

[myownalias]

Im no technical expert, so maybe I should leave this particular debate to those who are better equipped to deal it. But I'll have a go.

Under Bridgestone's you could still benefit in some situations by making the tyres last...going for different strategies, jumping cars. But these tyres wore down gradually and it really was a case of feeling and nursing the tyres. I dont know that Lewis couldnt do this? He possibly didnt choose this option very often because his skill was in shorter faster sprints.

The last two years the tyres havent just worn down, its to with the chemical reaction and getting the heat right, turning them on as well as preserving them. But then they suddenly go and no matter how good either driver is when they go you loose buckets off time in one lap. Thats a lottery you dont particularly want to get caught out with, so I guess the skill is delaying the fall from the cliff as long as possible. Now Mclaren have said that when they look at the tyres that come off the cars there's no difference between the wear from either driver. Lewis has always denied that he cant save his tyres when he needs to, he proved it at Spain but Im sure there were cases last year when he did so as well (Im sorry I cant remember spacifically....anyone know ?

That's pretty much my understanding of the situation, the falling off the cliff is the new thing in the last two years; literally a driver can lose 30 - 45 seconds in a 90 second lap if the tyres go off the cliff. With these Pirelli tyres, it seems no matter how you drive, a two stopper, let alone a one stopper is almost impossible unless you happen to be a Sauber driver!

Any driver can drive with restraint and bring the car home in the points while conserving tyres, Lewis proved that he can do it in Spain, but it's not the driver he is; Lewis likes to go hell for leather, always chasing another higher position, which is when I enjoyed Lewis racing the most, these days, that sort of aggressive driving will mean three, four or five stops as we saw early 2011!

[racechick]

Yes agreed Myown.

[CookinFlat6]

Lewis has only this year learned about conserving tyres better, previously going hell for leather, giving 110%, sliding the car wears tyres much quicker. But really until the Pirelli years (2011/12) there was no need to preserve tyres as the Bridgestones were pretty hard wearing, Pirelli were given the contract under the proviso that they create fast degrading tyres to 'improve' the spectacle!

I agree with most of this but have to take umbrage at the suggestion that he has only this year learnt about conserving tyres better. Its the mark of the greatest drivers to get the best out of the prevailing package. Each of the last 3 years there has always been at least one race where Lewis gives us a masterclass in conserving tyres and driving with remarkable restraint.

For racing drivers out of all the attributes required to win races, sheer pace used to be a trump card until Pirelli rocked up. in 2011 the 'over engineered' pirellis were more predictable and so one dimensional drivers who can hold back and drive without incidents or aggresion were rewarded. This year with lottery conditions, we see the most skilled drivers adapt quickest and forced to leave the trump card in the deck.

Vettel seems to have adapted very quickly after struggling at the start but then he is a great driver whereas Button seemingly only has the one card - his consistent, careful, incident free and smooth(slower) style when he has consistently perfect balance. If his car is faster than the rest then he can win things, if its the same, his natural smooth style inhibits his pace compared to Hamilton or Vettel

Smooth is slower? Button proves this in quali by achieving 0 - 5

[myownalias]

We know that Lewis will nine times out of ten outqualify Button, but points are not handed out for qualifying; Spain was a shocker for Jenson but in the race (in general), I don't agree that smoother is necessarily slower, hooking up every apex every lap will pay dividends over the course of 70 laps (for example). And a smoother, e.g. not sliding the car will look after the tyres better so may well mean one less pit stop. Lewis is the better qualifier but I believe on most occasions in race trim, the McLaren duo are fairly even, I still wouldn't like to call it either way this season!