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[andrew]

Well I agree with Vaptin's sentiment.

[darwin dali]

[Hammer278]

Well I agree with Vaptin's sentiment.

You need to learn to stop speaking for others. Something fundamental which was lost during childhood probably.

There are many participating in this thread, so there is no need to close it. You can choose to stay the f*** away from it though, good old free will.

[myownalias]

There are many participating in this thread, so there is no need to close it. You can choose to stay the f*** away from it though, good old free will.

Unless something has changed, you need to be wearing either green or fuchsia to close anything on this forum!

Attempting to defuse the situation before it goes bang!

[darwin dali]

There are many participating in this thread, so there is no need to close it. You can choose to stay the f*** away from it though, good old free will.

Unless something has changed, you need to be wearing either green or fuchsia to close anything on this forum!

Attempting to defuse the situation before it goes bang!

...or send me a check and CLOSE the deal

[bud]

Well the concept of a conspiracy within McLaren to hinder Lewis Hamilton from winning is nonsensical. It really is!
Yes mistakes have been made but this is sport, McLaren needs to look at areas of performance within their team to increase proficiency but this happens to drivers too, just as we see Lewis making mistakes of his own last year. Did the team ask him to lift his game or accuse him of failing in spite?

Ultimately some Lewis fans really need to get a grip, if you look at other teams mistakes have been made, wheels not put on correctly etc etc. Its not just McLaren, but when McLaren does it for some reason theres a motive... Tin Foil time!

[LewEngBridewell]

Well the concept of a conspiracy within McLaren to hinder Lewis Hamilton from winning is nonsensical. It really is!
Yes mistakes have been made but this is sport, McLaren needs to look at areas of performance within their team to increase proficiency but this happens to drivers too, just as we see Lewis making mistakes of his own last year. Did the team ask him to lift his game or accuse him of failing in spite?

Ultimately some Lewis fans really need to get a grip, if you look at other teams mistakes have been made, wheels not put on correctly etc etc. Its not just McLaren, but when McLaren does it for some reason theres a motive... Tin Foil time!

My thoughts exactly. Imagine the uproar if McLaren had done a Merc, and not scored many points for the first two races. Or if they'd done a Ferrari, and turned up at Melbourne with a car that was way off the pace.

[andrew]

Well the concept of a conspiracy within McLaren to hinder Lewis Hamilton from winning is nonsensical. It really is!
Yes mistakes have been made but this is sport, McLaren needs to look at areas of performance within their team to increase proficiency but this happens to drivers too, just as we see Lewis making mistakes of his own last year. Did the team ask him to lift his game or accuse him of failing in spite?

Ultimately some Lewis fans really need to get a grip, if you look at other teams mistakes have been made, wheels not put on correctly etc etc. Its not just McLaren, but when McLaren does it for some reason theres a motive... Tin Foil time!

My thoughts exactly. Imagine the uproar if McLaren had done a Merc, and not scored many points for the first two races. Or if they'd done a Ferrari, and turned up at Melbourne with a car that was way off the pace.

Or done an HRT and struggled to turn up at all!

[CookinFlat6]

Now this is a problem with internet access today when it comes to education, despite the wealth of information now available, examinations are often failed by answering the wrong question.

So the pupil sees a question that he knows the answer to but instead of answer that exact question, he answers a totally different one.

The original poster spent time firstly by putting forward a question, is there a conspiracy or not? He then puts forward a set of observations and suppositions exploring the questions before concluding that there is no conspiracy, but instead management and operational deficiencies which explains the lack of success at McLaren recently

He shows us that Whitmarsh appears to have favourites (facts like his crying over the win of one driver and not the other), He shows us that two drivers of very different styles in the same team both competing for the WC will always be a big challenge for the team. How do they manage resources in the team when there is one optimum strategy, one pit, and only 1 top podium spot.

How do the team ensure equal opportunities and more pertinently can this manager with an obvious preference for one driver remain professional enough when it comes to allocating resources and supporting the driver mentally and practically. He points out that the public utterances from the manager has tended to be gushing praise for one driver and gritted teeth for the other.

So his conclusion that there is no conspiracy but gross incompetence is perfectly reasonable, anyone is welcome to challenge this but the onus is on them to bring along similarly well reasoned observations and interpretation of the facts.

Instead what do we see from posters who do appear intelligent and articulate? A constant berating that no conspiracy exists. Again just like with the mis-educated delinquents in our education system we see a failure to logically argue and focus on the debate.

Its not rocket science, lets try again; lets ask ourselves the following;

Does Whitmarsh prefer Button (not a big deal, everyone has bias)
Have Mclaren made the largest amount of mistakes of any of the top teams over 4 years?
Has Lewis, the faster driver and the one more likely to win a WC, been hampered by the teams strategy of equal opportunities to two drivers with different needs?
Has Jenson been hampered similarly?
Should the team be leading both championships this season?
Have the team had a constant outflow of best staff to competitors?
Have the team seen a constant inflow of best staff from other teams? (apart from Sam Michaels LOL)
Is it possible that the mistakes from team members are to do with poor management and/or motivation
Is the famous 'share all data' centralised control structure conducive to the sharpness required for team members at this level?
We know that competition keeps people sharp, is there less competition between the two sides of the garage and could this contribute to individuals not having focus and not motivated enough?

If most answers are yes this would point to bad leadership from Whitmarsh, now lets look at the conspiracy angle

Is Whitmarsh conspiring with someone to hamper his highly paid driver and scupper his own teams chances?
No proof and its highly unlikely, now we do know that his teams chances are being scuppered so what is going on, this is what this thread should be about

Instead we get the same few people constantly turning up to argue that there is no conspiracy and that everything else is normal. It seems to me that there are some who are just out to answer the question they like, so that they have a chance to answer in a particular way - suppression of the thoughts of those who can think outside the status quo.

And when challenged on this? They want the thread shut down. Its like going past a bar that says 'Samoan bar" on the front and then demanding ale and chips, ridiculing Samoa when politely refused and then to grab attention lighting the grass skirts of the waitresses. Then they get upset when they get roughed up gently by the patrons and run off to the authorities to shut the place down

Why shut the thread down? as the season goes on there will be more info relating to this interesting dialectic and as more info becomes available the debate should progress as long as people want to discuss it

[racechick]

Im a she...the original poster. But I agree with your thoughts completely

[acosmichippo]

Now this is a problem with internet access today when it comes to education, despite the wealth of information now available, examinations are often failed by answering the wrong question.

So the pupil sees a question that he knows the answer to but instead of answer that exact question, he answers a totally different one.

The original poster spent time firstly by putting forward a question, is there a conspiracy or not? He then puts forward a set of observations and suppositions exploring the questions before concluding that there is no conspiracy, but instead management and operational deficiencies which explains the lack of success at McLaren recently

He shows us that Whitmarsh appears to have favourites (facts like his crying over the win of one driver and not the other), He shows us that two drivers of very different styles in the same team both competing for the WC will always be a big challenge for the team. How do they manage resources in the team when there is one optimum strategy, one pit, and only 1 top podium spot.

How do the team ensure equal opportunities and more pertinently can this manager with an obvious preference for one driver remain professional enough when it comes to allocating resources and supporting the driver mentally and practically. He points out that the public utterances from the manager has tended to be gushing praise for one driver and gritted teeth for the other.

So his conclusion that there is no conspiracy but gross incompetence is perfectly reasonable, anyone is welcome to challenge this but the onus is on them to bring along similarly well reasoned observations and interpretation of the facts.

Instead what do we see from posters who do appear intelligent and articulate? A constant berating that no conspiracy exists. Again just like with the mis-educated delinquents in our education system we see a failure to logically argue and focus on the debate.

Its not rocket science, lets try again; lets ask ourselves the following;

Does Whitmarsh prefer Button (not a big deal, everyone has bias)
Have Mclaren made the largest amount of mistakes of any of the top teams over 4 years?
Has Lewis, the faster driver and the one more likely to win a WC, been hampered by the teams strategy of equal opportunities to two drivers with different needs?
Has Jenson been hampered similarly?
Should the team be leading both championships this season?
Have the team had a constant outflow of best staff to competitors?
Have the team seen a constant inflow of best staff from other teams? (apart from Sam Michaels LOL)
Is it possible that the mistakes from team members are to do with poor management and/or motivation
Is the famous 'share all data' centralised control structure conducive to the sharpness required for team members at this level?
We know that competition keeps people sharp, is there less competition between the two sides of the garage and could this contribute to individuals not having focus and not motivated enough?

If most answers are yes this would point to bad leadership from Whitmarsh, now lets look at the conspiracy angle

Is Whitmarsh conspiring with someone to hamper his highly paid driver and scupper his own teams chances?
No proof and its highly unlikely, now we do know that his teams chances are being scuppered so what is going on, this is what this thread should be about

Instead we get the same few people constantly turning up to argue that there is no conspiracy and that everything else is normal. It seems to me that there are some who are just out to answer the question they like, so that they have a chance to answer in a particular way - suppression of the thoughts of those who can think outside the status quo.

And when challenged on this? They want the thread shut down. Its like going past a bar that says 'Samoan bar" on the front and then demanding ale and chips, ridiculing Samoa when politely refused and then to grab attention lighting the grass skirts of the waitresses. Then they get upset when they get roughed up gently by the patrons and run off to the authorities to shut the place down

Why shut the thread down? as the season goes on there will be more info relating to this interesting dialectic and as more info becomes available the debate should progress as long as people want to discuss it

Make sure to collect your $200 as you pass Go.

[CookinFlat6]

I can't handle this thread anymore. Just can't do it.

I'll leave you guys to your fantastical dissection of PR soundbytes.

Well well well, the chickens come home to roost

Instead we get the same few people constantly turning up to argue that there is no conspiracy and that everything else is normal. It seems to me that there are some who are just out to answer the question they like, so that they have a chance to answer in a particular way - suppression of the thoughts of those who can think outside the status quo.

I rest my humble case

[acosmichippo]

what can I say? This thread is a trainwreck. Try as I might, I can't look away.

Those of us "suppressing thought" just don't see a correlation between a few team f*** ups with any bias, conspiracy, favoritism, or whatever else you want to call it. As was explained earlier, it's your job to prove a positive correlation, not our job to prove there isn't one.

edit: correcting word filter weirdness.

[CookinFlat6]

Im a she...the original poster. But I agree with your thoughts completely

Apologies, I read your handle as Race Hick for some reason

[geetface9]

My b@LL$ are the size of grapefruits.