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[The Second Coming]

If that's the definition, then teenage girls conspire all the time.

Yes they do. So maybe there's scope for Whitmarsh to begin a conspiracy after all

I think it's possible for a one-person conspiracy. I sometimes feel like my wife is conspiring against me. Ooo...shhh...here she comes. Gotta go

[CookinFlat6]

If that's the definition, then teenage girls conspire all the time.

Yes they do. So maybe there's scope for Whitmarsh to begin a conspiracy after all

Whitmarsh couldnt conspire if he was at the back of a school bus with a bunch of teenage girls, he'd mess it up

[myownalias]

It's the few poor results analogy, when things aren't going well for a team, it's the manager's fault, hence why we see so many sackings in football. It's the same with McLaren, if Lewis and Jenson were dominating the sport, everyone (with the exception of RC ) would be claiming Whitmarsh is a genius.

[The Second Coming]

It's the few poor results analogy, when things aren't going well for a team, it's the manager's fault, hence why we see so many sackings in football. It's the same with McLaren, if Lewis and Jenson were dominating the sport, everyone (with the exception of RC ) would be claiming Whitmarsh is a genius.

That would be RC and me. I never fancied Whitmarsh a genius when he took over from Uncle Ron. Frankly, I thought he was a good sidekick in the Batman & Robin sense when Ron was Team Principal. Don't get me wrong, I don't rate Whitmarsh a full fledged plunker...he's just hasn't totally been on the boil in the last season and a half when it comes to true leadership and making decisions on the trot. Otherwise, fairly pleasant chap.

[CookinFlat6]

It's the few poor results analogy, when things aren't going well for a team, it's the manager's fault, hence why we see so many sackings in football. It's the same with McLaren, if Lewis and Jenson were dominating the sport, everyone (with the exception of RC ) would be claiming Whitmarsh is a genius.

Interesting notion with just one obvious flaw

Type 'Mclaren mistake Whitmarsh apology' into your browser and see what you find (you need to go back many many pages to find 2009, 2010 etc but heres one from 2009 to get you going

Whitmarsh explains Hamilton pit stop error

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... top-error/).


As far back as Whitmarsh has run the team its been constant screwups with the hapless boss saying 'we need to look at the process' 'we need to look into why this happened' 'we need to make sure this doesnt happen' etc etc blah blah blah

Which football manager would survive 4 years of nonsense given the wealth of talent and resources available to him?

Even the manager of a Kwick Fit tyre shop would be under pressure after 4 years of mismanagement of his resources

And guess what, its actually getting worse, hiring Sam Michaels?

As for the mentally challenged types who point out that Whitmarsh doesnt change the tyres himself etc etc, guess what geniuses

The most costly and embarrassing screwup was caused directly by Whitmarsh himself (after hiring Sam Michael to be there to take care of race weekend rules and organisation to prevent the previous mishaps) I mean when he decided to let Lewis complete the last illegal run did he consult the guy hired to know these rules and their penalties?

Its like the Max mosely affair, for ages more enlightened observers were mouthing concerns about the unfairness, vendettas, vindictiveness and favoritism coming out of the FIA, but most people would automatically say, 'oh theres nothing wrong, its just how things are. Well look how that turned out

Keep your eyes open folks, dont just say because its the status quo everything must be fit and proper. Dont just beleive what you read, think for yourself, the Lewis and Whitmarsh story stinks to high heaven

[andrew]

Dang, if you've got a cat even it would need a tin foil hat on here!

It's the few poor results analogy, when things aren't going well for a team, it's the manager's fault, hence why we see so many sackings in football. It's the same with McLaren, if Lewis and Jenson were dominating the sport, everyone (with the exception of RC ) would be claiming Whitmarsh is a genius.

Interesting notion with just one obvious flaw

Type 'Mclaren mistake Whitmarsh apology' into your browser and see what you find (you need to go back many many pages to find 2009, 2010 etc but heres one from 2009 to get you going

Whitmarsh explains Hamilton pit stop error

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... top-error/).


As far back as Whitmarsh has run the team its been constant screwups with the hapless boss saying 'we need to look at the process' 'we need to look into why this happened' 'we need to make sure this doesnt happen' etc etc blah blah blah

Mistakes happen in all teams. If you look hard enough and go way back to page 5,508,157,226 of Google you’d probably find the same sort of thing for every team.

Which football manager would survive 4 years of nonsense given the wealth of talent and resources available to him?

This is F1, not football. The IQ level tends to be higher. Sacking the manager for the mistakes of the minions is stupid - you get new minions.

Even the manager of a Kwick Fit tyre shop would be under pressure after 4 years of mismanagement of his resources

Mismanagement? Bit dramatic for a few errors under his management, which all team bosses will have.

And guess what, its actually getting worse, hiring Sam Michaels?

Why is this a bad thing? The guy has experience in the appropriate area. Remind us, which F1 team you work for?

As for the mentally challenged types who point out that Whitmarsh doesnt change the tyres himself etc etc, guess what geniuses

The most costly and embarrassing screwup was caused directly by Whitmarsh himself (after hiring Sam Michael to be there to take care of race weekend rules and organisation to prevent the previous mishaps) I mean when he decided to let Lewis complete the last illegal run did he consult the guy hired to know these rules and their penalties?

Its like the Max mosely affair, for ages more enlightened observers were mouthing concerns about the unfairness, vendettas, vindictiveness and favoritism coming out of the FIA, but most people would automatically say, 'oh theres nothing wrong, its just how things are. Well look how that turned out

Keep your eyes open folks, dont just say because its the status quo everything must be fit and proper. Dont just beleive what you read, think for yourself, the Lewis and Whitmarsh story stinks to high heaven

Fair enough. Bearing in mind what I just read,



If you listen to what the guy said, they took a chance and hoped to argue force-majuer. it didn't pay off and a penalty was handed out. What do you think his other option(s) was/were? Get the car back with not enough for a fuel sample? Either the guy working out the fuel load made a mistake or the guy filling the car made a mistake. Can't really see where Whitmarsh was at fault here unless you're suggesting that he had a length of hose and syphoned out a bit of fuel when no one was looking.

Whitmarsh doesn't sit on the pitwall working out the fuel loads and tyre strategies. He employs some very clever people for that. If one of them puts a decimal point in the wrong place that it's that person and that person's fault alone for that mistake, not the ruddy team manager. That's like me marking a valve or length of pipe or whatever for the wrong rig, no one picking up the mistake until it's in the middle of the North Sea and my boss gets fired. Completely stupid to suggest that a manager should be sacked for a minnion making a balls-up.

I know a lot of what I respond with on this here matter is ridiculous twaddle but it seems appropriate given that this conspiracy stuff is itself ridculous twaddle. Happy trails.

[racechick]

oH we're back on the conspitacy thing are we Andrew, listen carefully. IT IS NOT A CONSPIRACY. WHITMARSH SCREWS UP ALL BY HIMSELF

On your last point. The one where you said you cant see where Whitmarsh is to blame. Well its because he let lewis stay out and set an illegal pole when he knew it would be illegal. He's taken responsibility, so unlike you at least he does accept that he's responsible
http://patronisef1.com/index.php/f1-new ... li-blunder

What he should have done was call off lewis' final lap and let him start from 6th. But he didnt.

[andrew]

oH we're back on the conspitacy thing are we Andrew, listen carefully. IT IS NOT A CONSPIRACY. WHITMARSH SCREWS UP ALL BY HIMSELF

How can I listen to what is written?

What you're suggesting would require more than Whitmarsh. You make it sound as if he's the only employee of McLaren!

On your last point. The one where you said you cant see where Whitmarsh is to blame. Well its because he let lewis stay out and set an illegal pole when he knew it would be illegal. He's taken responsibility, so unlike you at least he does accept that he's responsible
http://patronisef1.com/index.php/f1-new ... li-blunder

What he should have done was call off lewis' final lap and let him start from 6th. But he didnt.

So he's taken responcibility for the mistake of an engineer or a mechanic as a team manager would normally do - it's part of the job! Behind closed doors I suspect that the person who screwed up is getting their P45 soon or is only in charge of a kettle or at the very least has gotten a severe dressing down.

Whitmarsh does not come up with the qualifying or race strategies. He'll be advised by engineers and wotnot. If the person giving the advice gives him a bum steer then there isn't anything he can do.

I still don't see where Whitmarsh is failing as a team manager and I don't see him doing anything untoward to either of his drivers.

[CookinFlat6]

[quote="andrew"]Dang, if you've got a cat even it would need a tin foil hat on here!

First of all, you have discredited any credibility you might have had by posting pictures of cats, also known as the 'I dont have a clue so Ill pander to the ridicule lobby' gambit

This is F1, not football. The IQ level tends to be higher. Sacking the manager for the mistakes of the minions is stupid - you get new minions.

Doesnt matter what business we are talking about, the manager is responsible for managing staff. The IQ of football (football has an IQ?) might be as high as yours but sadly irrelevant here

Mismanagement? Bit dramatic for a few errors under his management, which all team bosses will have.

Few errors, so why are the team the butt of so many jokes at the moment? Have Red Bull or any other front running team made more errors over the last 4 years?


Why is this a bad thing? The guy has experience in the appropriate area. Remind us, which F1 team you work for?Why is this a bad idea? So he employs a guy to make sure rules are adhered to and then breaks a major rule. The astute amongst us might point to Sam Michaels great success at Williams and how much they have suffered since he left. Also if the team wasnt aware that they were making too many errors, why hire Sam Michaels in the first place,


Fair enough. Bearing in mind what I just read,

Oh more ridiculous pictures, more attempts to dress up your (non) argument, that makes you look really mature and clever, got anymore?

If you listen to what the guy said, they took a chance and hoped to argue force-majuer. it didn't pay off and a penalty was handed out. What do you think his other option(s) was/were? Get the car back with not enough for a fuel sample? Either the guy working out the fuel load made a mistake or the guy filling the car made a mistake. Can't really see where Whitmarsh was at fault here unless you're suggesting that he had a length of hose and syphoned out a bit of fuel when no one was looking.

Whitmarsh doesn't sit on the pitwall working out the fuel loads and tyre strategies. He employs some very clever people for that. If one of them puts a decimal point in the wrong place that it's that person and that person's fault alone for that mistake, not the ruddy team manager. That's like me marking a valve or length of pipe or whatever for the wrong rig, no one picking up the mistake until it's in the middle of the North Sea and my boss gets fired. Completely stupid to suggest that a manager should be sacked for a minnion making a balls-up.

Ah, at last, you have put forward an opinion, dont be shy, you are better than silly pictures, you can now DEBATE, alas your argument sucks, I am not sure if you are in employment but rest assured that if you and others kept screwing up in a highly competitive field and your boss couldnt change this then he would be the one to answer. Now which part of Whitmarsh admitting that he alone was responsible for the latest debacle have you misunderstood in your haste to rival the other cat botherers in the conspiracy ridicule stakes?

I know a lot of what I respond with on this here matter is ridiculous twaddle but it seems appropriate given that this conspiracy stuff is itself ridculous twaddle. Happy trails

And so to your final outburst of disdain before flouncing off. You tell us that you post crap but its not you that is crap its the ones that forced you to be crap that are crap. Well thats just crap
Do you actually know what a conspiracy theory is, whats the conspiracy thats alleged here, pray cut and paste to enlighten us

[myownalias]

oH we're back on the conspitacy thing are we Andrew, listen carefully. IT IS NOT A CONSPIRACY. WHITMARSH SCREWS UP ALL BY HIMSELF

On your last point. The one where you said you cant see where Whitmarsh is to blame. Well its because he let lewis stay out and set an illegal pole when he knew it would be illegal. He's taken responsibility, so unlike you at least he does accept that he's responsible
http://patronisef1.com/index.php/f1-new ... li-blunder

What he should have done was call off lewis' final lap and let him start from 6th. But he didnt.

By default; Whitmarsh has to take ultimate responsibility for mistakes by the team, he is the team manager, so therefore everything that happens, good and bad, ultimately he is responsbile for it. And he does take the blame a criticism instead of pointing the finger, which I believe is the correct thing to do. I wonder how many mistakes Ron Dennis oversaw, Fernando Alonso could be classed as a huge one given what happened, overseeing one of the worst scandals in F1 history (Ferrari/McLaren espionage). I would bet most team principles have overseen at least one disaster!

[LewEngBridewell]

Harsh. This thread is about to turn nasty.

[vaptin]

Harsh. This thread is about to turn nasty.

Well my tinfoil hat will keep me safe!

[andrew]

Cookinflat6, you're accussing the guy of various things with no credible evidence. Just a one sided interpretation of events. There is nothing at all to suggest that he is seeing to is that Hamilton is getting treated any different to Button. Mistakes happen in all teams. McLaren are going through a rough season. These things happen.
That is all.

Harsh. This thread is about to turn nasty.

Just wait until Bud rocks up.

[racechick]

No it wont, dont worry lew.

[LewEngBridewell]

No it wont, dont worry lew.