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[What's Burning?]

Making errors like the fueling this weekend should be the end for Whitmarsh.

Didn't realise Whitmarsh now apparently refuels the cars as well as changing tyres and doing strategies.

Rule number one of leadership, is owning up to the shortcomings of the team as if they were made by his own hand, so yes. Problems in the management structure of the team are his problem. The only thing he can't control and shouldn't be responsible for is how the drivers perform on track. Which given the performance of Lewis today is the teams ONLY bright spot other than McLaren's engineering department.

[scotty]

Pahaha unbelievable scapegoating. Whitmarsh just is not directly responsible for the things we have seen this season. How can you actually have the nerve to say he can directly control human error by mechanics yet the driver is somehow exempt. Dennis is still the ultimate boss and yet he is somehow exempt too, by the reasoning here the buck actually stops with him. You Hamilton fans are actually just completely unreasonable sometimes, i can't believe it.

[LewEngBridewell]

Pahaha unbelievable scapegoating. Whitmarsh just is not directly responsible for the things we have seen this season. How can you actually have the nerve to say he can directly control human error by mechanics yet the driver is somehow exempt. Dennis is still the ultimate boss and yet he is somehow exempt too, by the reasoning here the buck actually stops with him. You Hamilton fans are actually just completely unreasonable sometimes, i can't believe it.

This thread should be shown at the Edinburgh Arts Festival or something. It's comedy gold.

[What's Burning?]

You think there are no issues with the team? You think that a leader isn't responsible for the performance of his team? That's right, you don't watch baseball, but I'm sure it's similar in football, they tend to fire the coach often when the team isn't able to execute the types of things McLaren is flailing at this season. Withmarsh isn't making the mistakes, don't patronize what's being said. I could say perhaps since your usual scapegoat is beyond reproach that's what's getting all the haterz in a tizzy but it's pointless to get into that argument yet again.

McLaren is broken currently, leadership is responsible for fixing it, yes. Who is the leader at McLaren? What happened to Lewis was an embarrassment, if you can't acknowledge that, then it's hopeless to have a discussion with you about it.

No conspiracy, more like incompetence.

[LewEngBridewell]

Qualifying was indeed a shocker, and deprived the team of a sure fire win. It stinks, and I'm furious about it. I suppose we just have to think of McLaren's "rivals" now, if there are any (pace-wise). They're not exactly setting a fine example either. Red Bull were sh!te today also. Webber was lapped, and Seb only moved ahead because the McLarens switched tyres earlier.

It's true though, the stupidness needs to stop. As of Monaco, McLaren need to get their car to the finish in the position it DESERVES to be in. Which, at the moment, is still first.

[Hammer278]

Pahaha unbelievable scapegoating. Whitmarsh just is not directly responsible for the things we have seen this season. How can you actually have the nerve to say he can directly control human error by mechanics yet the driver is somehow exempt. Dennis is still the ultimate boss and yet he is somehow exempt too, by the reasoning here the buck actually stops with him. You Hamilton fans are actually just completely unreasonable sometimes, i can't believe it.

Scotty, do you take Management courses in your engineering degree?

The leader is the FACE of a corporation. If the corporation is doing something illegal, there's a reason for the leader to be sanctioned/arrested. Flavio Briatore was cast out of F1, while Piquet (the perpetrator) raced on in F1. There's a reason why the CEO of BP was forced to leave after their massive environmental f*ck up. There's also a reason why you get a letter of apology from the KFC branch manager if you find a fried rat on your plate instead of a chicken. The employee might have done it, but why does the manager apologize?

Whitmarsh is called a team "MANAGER" for a reason. He should manage these issues and make sure they do not happen. Come on man, a fundamental business concept like this needn't have to be explained.

[scotty]

It is worth mentioning that McLaren were strategically on the ball today and gave Hamilton an optimum strategy (by all accounts 2 stopping was the literal fastest strategy), so where is the credit? Oh, it's apparently all the driver... says it all.

What happened to Lewis was an embarrassment, if you can't acknowledge that, then it's hopeless to have a discussion with you about it.

I know it was an embarrassment for McLaren, but equally if you cannot realise that Whitmarsh just cannot read the future and stop a guy making a mistake then i am put in a similar position on this. *shrug* And for the pitstops, assuming that was even human error with the wheelnuts and not a mechanical problem, Whitmarsh is not even the first point of contact it would probably be someone like Team Manager (i think David Redding).

Football is not comparable to F1 the team structure is so, so far removed from the complex F1 team machine.

There's also a reason why you get a letter of apology from the KFC branch manager if you find a fried rat on your plate instead of a chicken. The employee might have done it, but why does the manager apologize?

Yes i do management modules. But what everyone is implying here is that, in that example, it should be the head of KFC who apologises. The branch manager is the equivalent of the guy who manages the pit stops or whatever, in this case perhaps the Team Manager again. Renault was different cause the implication was that Flav and Symonds were directly involved. And you can't seriously be comparing some small errors in an F1 team to the BP incident, seriously...

[Hammer278]

Don't clutch at straws...its obvious I was trying to convey the role of a company leader and his responsibility as the leader, I'm not comparing the incidents.

As for the KFC bit, no I'm not asking Ron Dennis (who is the CHAIRMAN) to apologize....Martin Whitmarsh IS the "Branch/Race team Manager". McLaren is not all about racing, and you know that.

[scotty]

I'm not the one clutching at straws here, cause i'm not trying to scapegoat anyone.

[Hammer278]

I'm not the one clutching at straws here, cause i'm not trying to scapegoat anyone.

Putting yourself at risk of being a scapegoat is part of managing a team in life. This is where the "stress" factor comes in.

[What's Burning?]

Leadership to me is owning up to the errors made, regardless of who made them and say that they will be fixed. Leadership is giving credit to the team when they execute. In a sport where you win as a team but you lose as a driver, the same yardstick needs to be used when measuring those in charge. It's pointless to fire someone that you've spent years training, is competent and knows how things should work. It's far easier to make sure they don't make the same mistake twice. No coincidence that the Left Rear had a problem again today... because the usual guy is sitting at home sulking. Well maybe he got some solace with that hiccup.

Fixing the problems doesn't mean fire the boss, but any corporation that end their fiscal year with a performance like McLaren is having will surely be having an interesting discussion in the board meeting about whom to fire, and believe me, it won't be Lewis or Button.

The problem here is that arguably Lewis Hamilton is having the most mature and consistent driving season of his career and the things that have kept him from leading the WDC by 20 points currently are a direct impact of Mclaren's keystone cops performance in the pits. I'm not saying Whitmarsh needs to be fired, he as a leader needs to fix it, I don't care to point fingers and blame, it just needs to be fixed.

[The Second Coming]

McLaren is broken currently, leadership is responsible for fixing it, yes. Who is the leader at McLaren? What happened to Lewis was an embarrassment, if you can't acknowledge that, then it's hopeless to have a discussion with you about it.

No conspiracy, more like incompetence.

I share these sentiments. "What happened to Lewis was an embarrassment" Honestly, if it were just this one qualifying DQ issue this weekend, we (McLaren fans) may not be as up in arms but McLaren's off-track performance has been downright rubbish since the first race of the season. Granted, Jenson was at the hands of only one cockup but Lewis has had to endure the brunt of it...all stuff that should never happen. Lewis' reaction during the second pit cockup in Bahrain...just shaking his head in absolute amazement...said it all. Almost as if to say, "What next guys?!" For goodness sake, there was another left rear cockup in the pits with Lewis again today!!! The point is, McLaren simply are not ready for 2012 as a top tier team. Whitmarsh may be a good bloke but when the chips are on the table, seems to not be fully in control. I don't sense any real structure from the team. Whitmarsh has a top 3 driver who is great at setting up a car for qualifying and racing, brilliant in qualifying and does amazing things when the car is bad (compared to his team-mates) and what does Whitmarsh do? Brings in another driver and put the emphasis on him (..."and Lewis is still learning"...nice ). So, several teams have clawed back whatever advantage McLaren had from the start in Australia and where is Jenson now? Struggling with the car on softs and hards while Lewis is consistently getting the car right for both quali and race.

So, What's Burning is correct in the above statement—McLaren is indeed broken. Problem is, I struggle to see them changing for the better suddenly...which means we can expect more rubbish weekends to come. By the time they slowly begin to get things right, they may find themselves deep on the ugly side of the season when both Championships are well beyond reach. Too little too late.

For the non-McLaren F1 fans, I beg your indulgence for my rant. This is just the level of frustration McLaren fans feel right now.

[Hammer278]

McLaren is broken currently, leadership is responsible for fixing it, yes. Who is the leader at McLaren? What happened to Lewis was an embarrassment, if you can't acknowledge that, then it's hopeless to have a discussion with you about it.

No conspiracy, more like incompetence.

I share these sentiments. "What happened to Lewis was an embarrassment" Honestly, if it were just this one qualifying DQ issue this weekend, we (McLaren fans) may not be as up in arms but McLaren's off-track performance has been downright rubbish since the first race of the season. Granted, Jenson was at the hands of only one cockup but Lewis has had to endure the brunt of it...all stuff that should never happen. Lewis' reaction during the second pit cockup in Bahrain...just shaking his head in absolute amazement...said it all. Almost as if to say, "What next guys?!" For goodness sake, there was another left rear cockup in the pits with Lewis again today!!! The point is, McLaren simply are not ready for 2012 as a top tier team. Whitmarsh may be a good bloke but when the chips are on the table, seems to not be fully in control. I don't sense any real structure from the team. Whitmarsh has a top 3 driver who is great at setting up a car for qualifying and racing, brilliant in qualifying and does amazing things when the car is bad (compared to his team-mates) and what does Whitmarsh do? Brings in another driver and put the emphasis on him (..."and Lewis is still learning"...nice ). So, several teams have clawed back whatever advantage McLaren had from the start in Australia and where is Jenson now? Struggling with the car on softs and hards while Lewis is consistently getting the car right for both quali and race.

So, What's Burning is correct in the above statement—McLaren is indeed broken. Problem is, I struggle to see them changing for the better suddenly...which means we can expect more rubbish weekends to come. By the time they slowly begin to get things right, they may find themselves deep on the ugly side of the season when both Championships are well beyond reach. Too little too late.

For the non-McLaren F1 fans, I beg your indulgence for my rant. This is just the level of frustration McLaren fans feel right now.

Said it all really.

[LewEngBridewell]

McLaren simply are not ready for 2012 as a top tier team.

I share your frustration, but then, which team is "ready" for 2012, if McLaren is not? No one is having any sort of consistency, and the race was won today, not by McLaren's title rivals, but by the leaders of the midgrid.

[Hammer278]

I was comparing the Redbull/Ferrari pitstops with Mclarens today. I'm not exaggerating by any stretch but it was a HUGE difference. They were just so slick in every stop (bar Redbulls nose changes), their pitstops at rest were sub 2.5 seconds at most.

Last season McLaren were a match for them in the pitstop department. Only Merc were better. Just don't understand what the f**k has gone wrong in this one.