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[racechick]

Let’s try to keep it all in this thread. I’ll start.
It’s been suggested on many occasions that I think there is a conspiracy going on at McLaren. I think something is going on at McLaren but I’m not convinced it’s a conspiracy. I hope its not, don’t think it is but I’ll keep an open mind. No –one believed there was a conspiracy for Piquet to crash his car but hey ho.
So what is going on? Here are my thoughts, starting first with:
Facts and observations.
McLaren reorganised the team when Heikki left making everything more central rather than the conventional system teams run where a driver and his side of the garage compete against the other side.
Both drivers had new engineers, Jenson’s is considerably older than Lewis’
Whitmarsh seems to have a problem with Lewis. (I discover more the more I read, but pick plenty up anyway by watching the body language and comments)
Jenson was the first driver Whitmarsh employed after he took charge of the team.
Whitmarsh seems to like Jenson a lot (“Lets talk about Jenson”, cried when Jenson won, constant talking him up, was with him during the red flag period while Lewis was in his room, keeps saying Lewis underestimated him, he’s done the best F1 drives in history etc etc)
Lewis gets the worse strategies and is frequently overtaken by Jenson in the pits or (particularly last year) has his qualifying screwed up.
Jenson is street wise, been round the block a few times, is not averse to playing situations to his advantage.
Lewis is naive. He’s grown up placing complete trust in McLaren, dislikes and is not good at playing politics.
Jenson appears personable, likable, sociable and has a good time with people in his team. (Takes mechanics and engineers out to dinner)
Lewis is more intense, wears his heart on his sleeve, cannot hide his feelings of joy, disappointment or anger. May be more difficult to be around than Jenson.
Lewis can drive around car problems.
Jenson needs the car set up exactly to his liking
Lewis likes a little oversteer
Jenson likes understeer
Lewis has had a lot of problems involving pitstops or strategy in the first few races that have adversely affected his results
Jenson has had a problem involving a pitstop that probably had no effect on the outcome of the race.

There are probably more facts and observations , but for now I’ll leave it there . So that said , what do I think is happening at McLaren? Well taking the actual pitstops first. I just put those down to bad luck.
And my theory.
Well we have a team that does not run separate sides of the garage but do things centrally. A ‘best strategy for McLaren’ is worked out. It turns out that lap 12 is optimum to pit. Driver A is leading, both drivers need new tyres. The engineers know that driver A is better at managing problems, driver B will loose more time if his car isn’t optimum, so it is to McLarens advantage to pit driver B first-chance of more overall points for McLaren. Driver A is disadvantaged and looses his place to driver B but not as many places as driver B would have lost if he’d been left out. Same scenario when needing wets.
Add to the above situation a much younger engineer on lewis’ car, maybe less experienced and less confident. He is possibly less likely to push through a strategy to suit his own driver over the preferred ‘McLaren’ strategy.
Maybe driver B gets more input on set up and design since he needs the car ‘just so.’ In fact it has been written that this is the case.
And then there is the feeling in the team that the boss prefers one driver. Nothing overtly said, just the perception, the same perception that is being picked up by so many F1 fans from just observing snippets of the dynamics. And Jenson is so nice, Lewis a little difficult. Might those things have some bearing if a split second decision has to be made on strategy? Might it not sway a decision one way?
And finally the personalities of the two drivers themselves; Lewis just wants to drive the car, trusts Mclaren to do the best for him, has relied on Mclaren from an early age. Jenson has learnt to fend for himself, he sees the way the land lies and uses it to his advantage.
It is against that background that I think Lewis may not be getting such a fair deal as Jenson.
And my dislike for Whitmarsh is his inability to act professionally. His inability to see that things at Mclaren are not working well from strategy, pitstops , driver management to an inability to capitalise on the fastest car out of the box with two of the best drivers on the grid.

Those are my thoughts. Ive been promising to write them down for a while. I'll be keen to read any reasoned responses. I think its important we ask questions when we think something is amiss.

[acosmichippo]

jesus. You're not going to contain it in this thread just because of the title. You're just creating yet another thread to go spouting off nonsense.

[myownalias]

First thing;I didn't know about the "centralised" McLaren system; and secondly it's a stupid idea when you have two drivers that want to be #1, it may have worked when LH was #1 and HK was #2, but not in the current situation. Jenson is the more organised of the two drivers, he does want more control over his destiny, not relying on the team to work out the strategy, after all; the drivers are the ones out there driving at the limit, they should have the ultimate say in what the set-up & strategy should be. Lewis needs to take control of his own destiny, start being more assertive within the team, it does seem that McLaren are incapable to producing a good 'team' strategy! When you look at the history of F1, the big winners are the drivers that are assertive within the team, Fernando Alonso, Micheal Schumacher, Sebastian Vettel. Jenson has that ability after years of being nowhere, he wants to actively control his team and I see nothing wrong with that!

There is no conspiracy at McLaren, MW does definitely prefer Jenson, that isn't in doubt, just as it wasn't in doubt that Ron Dennis preferred Lewis over FA and HK.

[f1ea]

First thing;I didn't know about the "centralised" McLaren system; and secondly it's a stupid idea when you have two drivers that want to be #1, it may have worked when LH was #1 and HK was #2, but not in the current situation. Jenson is the more organised of the two drivers, he does want more control over his destiny, not relying on the team to work out the strategy, after all; the drivers are the ones out there driving at the limit, they should have the ultimate say in what the set-up & strategy should be. Lewis needs to take control of his own destiny, start being more assertive within the team, it does seem that McLaren are incapable to producing a good 'team' strategy! When you look at the history of F1, the big winners are the drivers that are assertive within the team, Fernando Alonso, Micheal Schumacher, Sebastian Vettel. Jenson has that ability after years of being nowhere, he wants to actively control his team and I see nothing wrong with that!

There is no conspiracy at McLaren, MW does definitely prefer Jenson, that isn't in doubt, just as it wasn't in doubt that Ron Dennis preferred Lewis over FA and HK.

I don't know where RChick is going with this... but many of the traits you mentioned about Lewis are not exactly compliments.

Lewis has had major issues with his pit stops... Jenson much smaller issues. But I wouldnt know where to go from that... other than that, the fact that Jenson outpaces or overtakes Lewis on the long run isnt much of a Jenson vs Lewis advantage, but more of a Jenson advantage over anyone... Canada last yr??

Basically... Lewis and his camp are quick to point the blame on external factors when things dont go their way. Does anyone claim Mclaren is damaging Jenson on Q? it would seem so, cause Jenson consistenly gets outQ'd. Also, Lewis is much more dependent on his wall for input, it would seem Jenson is ussualy a step ahead and cretaes input for his wall rather than the other way around. I'm not totally sure how it works cause we only get some partial feed... but ussualy its Jenson saying stuff and Lewis asking stuff. Mistakes get made both ways. As I remember, Jenson Monaco GP was a dumb-arse mistake... and I dont even keep track of how many more. I would say... things just happen.

Other than that... I dont think there's any conspiracy. Just closely matched drivers on really different style... perhaps Lewis would benefit more from the central management if his style matched Jenson's more...

They're closely matched. So I guess the difference gets made on very little details.

[racechick]

I didnt set out to compliment Lewis, but to give some of the reasons I dont think he's getting a fair deal. If his personality is a contributing factor it has to be mentioned.

[CookinFlat6]

Yes racechick, it makes perfect sense, Whitmarsh is not a rainmaker boss, he found himself boss after Max flogged himself silly over Ron, and is trying to do things according to the book, with no 'magic' (his words)

Take the Mugello test for example

Ferrari, Alonso is doing most of the testing himself, you can bet your arse the other top teams will take their drivers as well, HRT are not even turning up,

McLaren? declared first that the test drivers would do the job.

Now this cannot be rocket science to send your drivers along, if you are a slick top team

Whitmarshs McLaren?, do everything by the manual, no common sense

What do we expect from a team boss who considers his drivers as 'disturbingly good looking' that really tells us all we need to know about how likely he is to keep McLaren a top racing team

[f1ea]

I didnt set out to compliment Lewis, but to give some of the reasons I dont think he's getting a fair deal. If his personality is a contributing factor it has to be mentioned.

Yeah i know, I was saying like somethings you said about Hamilton that may be seen as good things, such as carrying his heart on his sleeve and along the likes are not necesarilly positive things, and in the end may end up hurting him much more than he thinks. Also being Naive. Naive simply means immature... and that's not good.

Unfortunately, Whitmarsh is not team boss/owner... so he has to make defendable decisions. Ron could do what he wanted to some extent. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesnt... but it definitely looks better in doing so. I mean, its not really all that cool when someone play by the book. Thats why Senna had much more fans than Prost

[myownalias]

I didnt set out to compliment Lewis, but to give some of the reasons I dont think he's getting a fair deal. If his personality is a contributing factor it has to be mentioned.

Jenson has taken advantage of Lewis' weakness of following the team line and made the team his own, no such thing as a fair deal in life in general, life is what you make it, until Lewis realises that or has a team that is specifically built around him (like McLaren before Jenson), he will struggle for dominance in a team with a driver like Jenson who works hard at making the team his own!

[racechick]

I agree with much of the last two posts. Lewis' personality is I think a disadvantage to him. But in a top team with all the money Mclaren have they should be minimizing this. They know what lewis is capable of in the car, if he would benefit from a closer working relationship with a good engineer or strategist then why cant they provide one? Its peanuts to what they spend developping the car. Mclaren have brought him up not to question, in fact have actually discouraged it. Was it 2009 when he asked to stop for tyres and was told to shut up and drive? And then lost a place to Kimi for stopping too late? He seems to be given less information about situations and when he does ask for (say tyres) its ignored.
He has asked to do the Mugello test, and he did it in the mediaI(clever move, maybe he's learning!)Lets hope they let him do it and listen to his input.

[acosmichippo]

...if [Lewis] would benefit from a closer working relationship with a good engineer or strategist then why cant they provide one?

Maybe because that isn't actually the problem?

The fact that a few admittedly non-technical F1 fans think they know what's best for Lewis, or the team in general, rather than a multi-hundred-million-dollar organization is laughable.

[bud]

Facts and Observations? More like just observations from an external source (Lewis Hamilton fan)

So, sorry these are not facts you provided just your own opinion, you aren't in the team and there is no way you can make these claims and label them as facts.
Your arguement is weak at best, and if any of it were true then why oh why does Lewis not see it from where he is? And if he does then why oh why does he bloody stay and put up with it?

At least you admit it's a conspiracy theory now

It's a well known - but never mentioned - whisper in F1 that Michael Schumacher is only at Merc to develop the car for Nico Rosberg and that Martin Whitmarsh is not a fan of Lewis Hamilton. At least that's according to the PlanetF1 conspiracies.

As the poor sod who gets to spend an hour of her Monday morning after each and every grand prix approving, deleting - shaking her head in wonder, disgust, horror and laughter - Your Say comments I have learnt a thing or two about F1 that I never would have known if it wasn't for the intelligent, well-thought-out, informative comments from readers.

Mercedes really hate Schumacher, Whitmarsh is only for Button and money means nothing to either team.

Yip, there is one thing you can guarantee on a Monday morning after Schumacher's had issues and Hamilton a shocker: the conspiracy theorists are all wearing their tinfoil hats.

Schumacher's Bahrain Grand Prix weekend was effectively ruined by a DRS problem in qualifying that meant he was stuck in the pits while Q1 ended and so too did his afternoon.

But did you know the DRS problem was actually Ross Brawn doing all he could to ensure that Rosberg outqualified Schumacher? Yip, Ross is so determined to see that Schumacher - who he clearly has no affinity for despite their record haul of World titles together and his decision to bring Schumacher out of retirement and into Mercedes - that he would fake a problem to keep Schumacher sitting in the pits.

But it gets even better because just in case Schumacher had the pace to slice through the field, Brawn decided to make his job even hander by changing his gearbox thus pushing him back five additional places.

Talk about a lack of love.

Schumacher, though, isn't the only driver who isn't loved, just ask the Hamilton conspiracy brigade.

Not once but twice on Sunday Whitmarsh organised for the rear wheel man to fake an issue thereby costing Hamilton time and positions.

This - or so I've heard - was done in order to allow Jenson Button to recover from his tardy first stint and edge Hamilton. Because, as all conspiracy theorists know, Whitmarsh picked Button as a McLaren driver but was stuck with Hamilton after his predecessor Ron Dennis locked Hamilton into a long-term contract.

Poor, poor Hamilton.

And while one cannot argue with the tinfoil community - btw Big Brother is watching - I do have one piece of logic to impart and really this is what it boils down to: money.

Formula One is all about the money, just ask Bernie. Money makes the wheels go round it's as simple as that and how do teams earn money? They score points. The more points you have the higher you finish in the Constructors' Championship and the more money you win.

Simple isn't it?

So next time that voice whispers in your head take the time to think on this: some times a mistake is just that - a mistake.

Michelle Foster

Guess this is the best thread now for this story of reason and logic

[yamashek]

I am interested to see where this will be going...good entertainment in between F1 races

[Jabberwocky]

If you think about it Jenson has had experience in being the new boy and fighting the iner team battle. Lewis on the other hand has had a bit of a silver spoon experience. Since he was signed as a Mclaren junior driver he always knew that uncle Ron would help. Then when he got to F1 he had Alonso who turned into a stroppy girl and segregated himself from the team early on. Then came Heikki nice bloke but not in the same league as lewis in terms of speed. So Jenson is the 1st long term strong team mate. Lewis has lost the inner team battle.


However I for one moment can not believe that Mclaren would do anything that would jjeopardize what was the best results Mclaren could get. Like botching tires on at pit stops.

[racechick]

@BudNo, I still dont think its a conspiracy...YET. Yes they are my observations,my theories, but there are also undeniable facts.
Since you post again the badly written sarcastic piece from PF1 I'll post again the link so people can see how its getting rubbished.
http://www.planetf1.com/editorial/76948 ... acy-This...
Bear in mind the editor does exactly what it says on the tin...edits out posts she dislikes. Still enough remain. Look particularly at the older posts. The ones with 30 or more 'recommends'. Lots of people have views far stronger than mine and lots of those who think all is fine at Mclaren still think that piece of journalism was emotive poo.

[racechick]

If you think about it Jenson has had experience in being the new boy and fighting the iner team battle. Lewis on the other hand has had a bit of a silver spoon experience. Since he was signed as a Mclaren junior driver he always knew that uncle Ron would help. Then when he got to F1 he had Alonso who turned into a stroppy girl and segregated himself from the team early on. Then came Heikki nice bloke but not in the same league as lewis in terms of speed. So Jenson is the 1st long term strong team mate. Lewis has lost the inner team battle.


However I for one moment can not believe that Mclaren would do anything that would jjeopardize what was the best results Mclaren could get. Like botching tires on at pit stops.

I agree with all of that Jab. They cant afford to botch pitstops. That was just very poor and unlucky for ewis that he got most of it.
Its the strategies that concern me.