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[Enlightened]

What is it about Ferrari fans? Somehow they don't get it?

When it comes to soccer/football, I am a Brazilian fan since 1982. That doesn't mean that my team is always right and good. I have been angry at them and criticized them time after time.

Why is it so hard for Ferrari fans (FF) to tell things as they are?

God gave us brains to use! We analyze things in our daily life based on logic. We try to make sense out of things in our life (understand why, how, what...). Then we make a logical decision. For whatever reason, FF don't use the same process of thinking. For them, Ferrari and Michael are always right, no matter what. There is no doubt that Ferrari and Michael are great. Does that mean they are always right, absolutely not.

So I urge all FF to mature, use some logical thinking and then express your opinions. It is tiring to have to deal with less than intelligent ideas and opinions.

[bud]

Amen!

[Marco]

A tad harsh?

And from your signature:

Real F1 fans are those who were around when the Great Ones were around.

I disagree with that, and who do you define as the Great Ones? Surely Schumacher is the greatest of them all with 7 World Championships? If you refer to the golden oldies, isn't unfair to say that all us 18-35 year olds aren't proper F1 fans just because we weren't born yet?

[bud]

Surely he must be greatest!? haha i mean quantity over quality right?

and Marco by saying you know nothing of the older generations is proving the point youre not a real F1 fan, you see Schumacher with his 7 titles which is more than anyone else so ahh he must be the best. If you were a true fan you would make that decision based upon everyone that has been before your time.

[Marco]

Surely he must be greatest!? haha i mean quantity over quality right?

and Marco by saying you know nothing of the older generations is proving the point youre not a real F1 fan, you see Schumacher with his 7 titles which is more than anyone else so ahh he must be the best. If you were a true fan you would make that decision based upon everyone that has been before your time.

If you had read my response, you'd see I didn't actually say I lacked knowledge of the Golden Oldies, simply that I wasn't around when they made their impact upon F1. Schumacher is the most successful F1 driver in history, that is true, as far as comparing modern day Heros with the greats of yesteryear, I'm not sure you can - Fangio wouldn't be able to fit into a modern day F1 car, and I'm sure Schumacher wouldn't have the physical strength to drive a heavy 1950s car for a full GP distance.

But seeing as you raised the point, who in your opinion is the best driver of all time?

[darwin dali]

God gave us brains to use! We analyze things in our daily life based on logic. We try to make sense out of things in our life (understand why, how, what...). Then we make a logical decision.

He who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones: Talking about logical decisions, analyzing things, trying to make sense out of things - all nice and dandy. Why don't you start yourself and lose the intro about your imaginary friend god? Enlightened my bottom!

[bud]

Now now lets not start another Religion Vs Science debate

well to say who is the greatest is very hard, its hard to compare era's, like you said but its not in the context you were implying.
back in the day guys were dying all the time, the risk factor was greater and those who took risks to go to the limit were great drivers. todays drivers can push past the limit and know everything will be ok. the cars in the modern era have taken away from the driver, as we have seen with Ferrari's dominance of this decade.

who do i think is the greatest? Ayrton Senna , i made that opinion not just on what i have seen but also to his peers who have raced before him who have also made that claim.
but i would also put Jackie Stewart right up there!

[Marco]

Senna? Why? Wasn't he comprehensively beaten during the opening of 1994 by nonother than Michael Schumacher?

[Enlightened]

Darwin Dali, my friend, you just proved my point with your immature response!

Marco, I never denied Michael his status as one of the greatest F1 drivers ever. What I am trying to say is that his fans are so arrogant or ignorant that they refuse to admit that he makes mistakes. Actually, they probably know that he makes mistakes, but they choose to look the other way and distort the facts.

Senna was my favorite driver. Was he always right? Of course not. I have no problem saying that but for Michael's fan this will never happen. To them, Michael is always right? Does that make sense.

Marco, no one is judging you for not being around during the oldies. That is why you can never claim that Senna or Michael or whoever you like is the best ever. Maybe Michael is the greatest for his era, but not the best ever. The same goes for Senna, Stewart and others. I hope this made things a litltle bit clear. Thanks.

[bud]

Senna? Why? Wasn't he comprehensively beaten during the opening of 1994 by nonother than Michael Schumacher?

yeah by a benetton which had traction control and was illegal all season, aside to the fact Senna didnt finish one race at the start of 94 the year he died,
good call

[certom]

Dear Enlightened, i don't call it immature... you know, Ferrari fans, and expecially the italian ones, are different from all the other teams' fans, there's something that i cannot translate, something that you cannot understand...i call it "Tifo" , " Fede per la Ferrari", i mean, for us, the Ferrari is faith, and you will never find this in another team's fan....
do you understand?

[Enlightened]

Certom,

Loving your team is one thing. Not being reasonable is another thing. You can love your team with faith, but the latter should not blind you from seeing the facts. I apologize if my words were harsh. I can't find another word to express my opinion. Maybe the word immature is not the right one but I guess most people got the idea.

I understand you are Italian and love your Ferrari team and that's fine. But being blind to what your team does and reject any ideas that they could cheat and distort the facts or take advantage of some support from the FIA, is called blindness.

Why is it that Ferrari fans can't see that? I know it requires courage to tell the truth but shouldn't faith give you that?

[certom]

i have never said that Schumi is not a cheater, i know that he made his bullshits during his career. But what about the other old pilots(i've already told about Senna-Prost, i don't want to return on this topic) But i can't see any - i don't know the substantive- anyway, i can't see Ferrari cheated. Let me know any examples.
Just know this thing: that I have never seen a Ferrari Boss going with Bernie in a Mercedes. I saw Briatore doing this,after the japanese GP, when he tried to run away from an italian interviewer and seated on the rear seat near Ecclestone....mm....who knows what they talked about....

[anakngpitongkubanamanoh]

This is for bud and Enlightened. These guys are truly not fans of MS and will never be but who cares about what they say. Dudes you guys doesnt even had a name in any sports event or whatever event. Talking Ill or hate a person without "FACTS" is a hillbillies things, or should I say TEXANS = people who thinks theyre better than anyone in the world. They are not God and what they say is nothing because they dont even drive a NASCAR so how can they judge somebody if you dont know what situation is what. they never been in the cockpit, im sure theyve been and drove their truck. They are trying to be the "gods" of F1 which they think or want people to get their compassion in every hatred words they say. This is a new age era people are smart because of the internet people just dont believe what other people say its better to browse whats the real fact and real news and dont take word from anybody who thinks they know what their saying because they are americans = hillbillies.

[bud]

alphabet dude i race so go F yourself
If only F1 racers can talk about the sport then this forum should be closed right now!
again listen to what youre saying it works for you too, or are you some motorsport superstar? i highly doubt it with your grammer ; )