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By bud
#291332
You're not taking into account the change in tyres. That is a MAJOR change for teams and drivers, Tyres are the most important part of a car, any car! These tyres were designed to degrade at high rates. It is obvious to any true F1 fan, not biased by a love affair with a certain driver that MW was affected quite dramatically by the change. Vettel on the other hand had no problems adapting.

You can believe that Seb is 8 tenths faster than any other driver out there, thats fine. I'll group you with the L Ron Hubbard bunch...
By mnmracer
#291334
You're not taking into account the change in tyres. That is a MAJOR change for teams and drivers, Tyres are the most important part of a car, any car! These tyres were designed to degrade at high rates. It is obvious to any true F1 fan, not biased by a love affair with a certain driver that MW was affected quite dramatically by the change. Vettel on the other hand had no problems adapting.

You can believe that Seb is 8 tenths faster than any other driver out there, thats fine. I'll group you with the L Ron Hubbard bunch...

For one, if you had bothered to read, you'd see that I said the average time difference was 0.4s (if you're interested, Alonso > Massa was 0.325s).

If being a true F1 fan means ignoring the facts and creating your own reality, than I guess I'm not a true F1 fan. Looking at the facts though, Webber did not "outqualify Vettel for most of 2010", Webber did not lead the 2010 championship because he was more skilled and Webber did not perform worse in relation to Vettel last year than he did in 2009.
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By bud
#291337
Oh yeah I forgot in your world of sport there would be no such thing as bad luck or misfortune. Don't sing the sook tune about Vettels bad luck in 2010 he caused a lot of it himself. More to winning races than just being the fastest, just ask Button.
By mnmracer
#291338
Oh yeah I forgot in your world of sport there would be no such thing as bad luck or misfortune. Don't sing the sook tune about Vettels bad luck in 2010 he caused a lot of it himself. More to winning races than just being the fastest, just ask Button.

So spark plug faillures, brake faillures, engine blow-outs, more brake faillures, gear box problems, more engine trouble and another engine blow-out are caused by the driver himself now? Interesthing theory. Wild, probably a bit out of touch with reality, but interesting.

Though I love how you simply ignore any argument against what you said yourself. From the many arguments of you that I've corrected for you, you're now down to replying to just one. I guess it hurts for some people having to admit you're wrong.
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By bud
#291340
Thats the name of the game Mechanical failures are apart of motorsports. And funnily enough drivers can cause mech failures by their driving styles. But you talk of Vettels misfortunes like he is the first guy to have such bad luck? Especially in comparison to Webber who has had his fair share of bad luck throughout his career.

And thats your whole problem, I don't need your correcting! Get over yourself mate! :censored:
By mnmracer
#291341
Thats the name of the game Mechanical failures are apart of motorsports. And funnily enough drivers can cause mech failures by their driving styles. But you talk of Vettels misfortunes like he is the first guy to have such bad luck? Especially in comparison to Webber who has had his fair share of bad luck throughout his career.

And thats your whole problem, I don't need your correcting! Get over yourself mate! :censored:

I talk of driver's misfortunes as in unreflective of their skills and performances. As long as you try to put down a driver's performance, and only one driver's performance, because his car broke down every other race, you'll find me being thoroughly annoyed by such shortsightedness.

And as long as you can't get your facts straight, you apparantly do need correcting. Here's a sollution: before you claim something, check if it's true. Often doesn't take more than one Google search, which is a lot less time than you spent argueing with me, trying to twist the facts to your liking.
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By bud
#291342
you're delusional you know that? All I am trying to say is Webber had a bad 2011 due to the tyres, I have NEVER stated he out Qualified Vettel in 2010 overall, I said he was closer to him and held his own on some races. Please show me where i have?

What is clear is you have gone onto a fanboy Tangent and brining in your stupid what ifs to back up your claims of driver skill which why not bring in magic while you're at it!

How about a solution for you, you can go stick you're smart arse comments up you're f***ing arse! Google that I'm sure its in your browser history! :irked:
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By vlad
#291343
Bud, please be polite, mate, no need for such words.
User avatar
By bud
#291344
Bud, please be polite, mate, no need for such words.


If spoken to without belittlement, gladly!
By Hammer278
#291345
It's almost like these Vettel haters are implying that Webber suddenly transformed from a Godlike racer to an ordinary Joe from 2010 - 2011, suddenly he's Mr 8 tenths slower (actually, 4 tenths average over the season)...

For the first seven years of his F1 career, Mark Webber was considered a qualifying specialist. He outqualified Rosberg 12 to 6 at Williams. He qualified second and two times third in a Jaguar, and put several other mid-field cars on the first three rows. Shame on you for trying to put down Webber's qualifying skills just in an effort to bad mouth Vettel.

If you'd actually bother to look at the facts, than you would have to agree with me that 7 - 12 is not "outqualifying Vettel for most of 2010". Actually, you'd find the 2009 score, which you deem "not to the extent of 2011", to be actually quite similair: 14 to 3 for Vettel.

And holding his own against Vettel in 2010? If it weren't for his car falling apart, Vettel would not have finished 14 points ahead of Webber, but 70, including Webber's cases of bad luck.


I'm sorry, what are you implying here? Vettel is Godlike then?

Webber might have had an off year you know? Or maybe his performance is in decline. The guy isn't young. Personally, I think he's lucky to stay in a high profile seat in 2012 after his performance last year but that's a different story.

I maintain no driver can outperform the car, not even Lord Sebastian. His '8 tenths' was like what bud stated earlier, a great car from Race 1, with the Mclaren coming into the race hoping their last second solution keeps them in the Top 10! Webber, I don't know what happened to him but drivers DO qualify badly on occasion. However, claiming Vettel got that 8 tenths all through his own is like saying give the guy a Caterham and he'll win races for you....please, this is the same vitriol we heard back in the Schumacher days of early 2000s...give the guy a Minardi and he will bring in podiums!! Then barely a few years later, in 2005 he had the 3rd best car in the field and didn't feature anywhere during the season.

Face up to it....the Redbull machinery has flattered big time but Vettel did his job by getting the car to places where it should be. Nothing more.
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By geetface9
#291349
How about a solution for you, you can go stick you're smart arse comments up you're f***ing arse! Google that I'm sure its in your browser history! :irked:


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

BOOOOM!!!
By andrew
#291352
Bud, please be polite, mate, no need for such words.


Ain't going to happen. Heard of"papal infallibility"? :rolleyes:

It's almost like these Vettel haters are implying that Webber suddenly transformed from a Godlike racer to an ordinary Joe from 2010 - 2011, suddenly he's Mr 8 tenths slower (actually, 4 tenths average over the season)...


They can't be Vettel haters. They're posting in the Vettel thread so therefore using the logic used in other threads they nmust be Vettel fans.
By Hammer278
#291355
They can't be Vettel haters. They're posting in the Vettel thread so therefore using the logic used in other threads they nmust be Vettel fans.


Exactly. We can't be bigger 'fans' of Vettel than you are of Hamilton, that's for sure.
By Peng
#291358
I don't post at all pretty much anymore because it always felt like talking to a wall with some people but this thread just went from crazy to batshit insane.

At no point has anyone said Vettel is a bad driver (at least no one with a brain), infact most of the supposed "Vettel Haters" have said on various occasions that Vettel is an amazing driver and quite easily 1 of the best in the sport currently.

Yet apparently this isn't enough for Vettel fans anymore? he has to be labelled as legendary status from now on because he is so much better than anyone else on the track right? that is seriously ridiculous.

He is the best qualifier in the sport currently and quite possibly the best the sport has ever seen and the team use this to their advantage, but F1 is more than just the qualifying weekend and some drivers are quite clearly better than him in other aspects of the sport, if that is too hard for Vettel fans to believe than i sincerely hope for your sakes that Vettel doesn't have a bad season because it may quite literally kill you to find out he isn't a god.
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