FORUMula1.com

[LewEngBridewell]

Maybe this thread should be loacked or tidied up lest AKR turns up.

No need for that yet. You and racechick have derailed threads much more heavily than this, with your relentless bickering.

Yeah, but none of them would offend AKR. He is truly scary when he starts going. Besides, I never said I was entirely innocent.

AKR is a woman

Regardless of what they are, they are scary in their devotion to the reds.

[What's Burning?]

^^ Reds as in communists?

[darwin dali]

^^ Reds as in communists?

[scotty]

Reactive suspension systems were banned from Formula 1 once it became clear to the FIA that their principle benefit was aerodynamic, AUTOSPORT has learned.

The governing body wrote to teams on Friday informing them that, in its view, the mechanical concepts pioneered by Lotus and Ferrari and being looked at by other teams would be in contravention of the rules if they were used to help the aerodynamics of the cars.

This came despite the initial idea for the hydraulic devices, activated by brake torque, being given the green light as long ago as January last year.

At the time of that initial approval to the then Renault team, it was understood that the devices were purely suspension related and aimed at maintaining ride-height - so effectively nothing more than a sophisticated version of rising-rate springs.

However, with rival teams having expressed an interest in the design, and querying its legality after it was spotted at last year's young driver test in Abu Dhabi, the FIA decided to look much closer at the reactive ride concept.

It is understood that as more details emerged about the Renault and Ferrari systems, both in terms of how they worked and what their benefit was, it became clear that the main advantage of the suspension systems was in helping aerodynamic performance.

The FIA believed that because the systems relied on changes being made to the length of the suspension member as well as unusual movement of the brake calipers - and these alterations helped the aerodynamics of the car – that they were in breach of Article 3.15 of F1's Technical Regulations, which effectively bans moveable aerodynamic devices.

The article states that any part that influences aerodynamic performance "must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any degree of freedom)" and "must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car."

As well as the potential breach of the aerodynamic rules, it is understood that there was a risk of the reactive ride systems getting challenged under the articles relating to suspension in the F1 regulations too.

Article 10.2.1 states: "With the steering wheel fixed, the position of each wheel centre and the orientation of its rotation axis must be completely and uniquely defined by a function of its principally vertical suspension travel, save only for the effects of reasonable compliance which does not intentionally provide further degrees of freedom."

Article 10.2.3 says: "No adjustment may be made to the suspension system while the car is in motion."

The decision to make a ruling on the reactive suspension systems now removes the threat of the matter building up into a major technical controversy before the start of the season, which could have overshadowed the first race like the double diffuser row did in 2009.

Although the FIA directive states that the governing body views the devices to be illegal, there is nothing stopping teams from continuing to test them and fitting them to the cars for the season-opening Australian Grand Prix – because the final decision on whether they comply with the regulations always rests with the race stewards. But such a scenario is thought to be highly unlikely.

Fair enough, but also kinda stupid BS considering they let the f-duct go on for a whole season.

[What's Burning?]

Fair enough, but also kinda stupid BS considering they let the f-duct go on for a whole season.

There really wasn't a moveable "part" in the F-duct, unless you consider the driver's hand a moveable part. anyway, better this than last year's overrun fiasco. Looks like Kimi is going to have to earn his salary without a gift horse.

[andrew]

Fair enough, but also kinda stupid BS considering they let the f-duct go on for a whole season.

Have to agree that their reasoning to ban this is sound. You can't really compare it to the F-duct as no part of the car was moving in a way that alters the aerodynamics, as far as the f-duct is concerned.

[bud]

Who were the teams pushing for the ban? Was it Ferrari under the guise of having their own system? Was it Redbull with what seems to be their new found political might? I read Williams had a complaint about it but not sure if that's accurate.

I'm glad the FiA has banned it sooner rather than later as technical arguments take away from the racing.

[scotty]

There really wasn't a moveable "part" in the F-duct, unless you consider the driver's hand a moveable part. anyway, better this than last year's overrun fiasco. Looks like Kimi is going to have to earn his salary without a gift horse.

Have to agree that their reasoning to ban this is sound. You can't really compare it to the F-duct as no part of the car was moving in a way that alters the aerodynamics, as far as the f-duct is concerned.

I think that if a driver does something and then the aerodynamics change, that has to be considered moving aerodynamics. My gripe here is not the banning (as i said), but why couldn't they sort themselves out with the banning of other things much sooner too? Inconsistency... useless.

[andrew]

Other devices which have been recently banned (such as the f-duct and blown diffusers) have exploited grey areas where there are solid arguments for and against banned them. Lotus's trick suspension seems to be a lot more clear cut than some of the other banned gadgets.

[spankyham]

Other devices which have been recently banned (such as the f-duct and blown diffusers) have exploited grey areas where there are solid arguments for and against banned them. Lotus's trick suspension seems to be a lot more clear cut than some of the other banned gadgets.

Look, I really don't think this would have been a deal breaker in terms of performance, so I don't think you'll be seeing Lotus et al loosing much sleep over it being banned.

What I find ridiculous is the FiA's inconsistency. They ban this immediately because there's moving parts and the prime purpose is to gain aero benefit - hello! Extreme Overrun - LOL. They are a bunch of stupid jackasses and they just make themselves look more stupid.

[bud]

Other devices which have been recently banned (such as the f-duct and blown diffusers) have exploited grey areas where there are solid arguments for and against banned them. Lotus's trick suspension seems to be a lot more clear cut than some of the other banned gadgets.

Look, I really don't think this would have been a deal breaker in terms of performance, so I don't think you'll be seeing Lotus et al loosing much sleep over it being banned.

What I find ridiculous is the FiA's inconsistency. They ban this immediately because there's moving parts and the prime purpose is to gain aero benefit - hello! Extreme Overrun - LOL. They are a bunch of stupid jackasses and they just make themselves look more stupid.

I think the mistakes of last year are why they are doing it so early. Banning something midway through a season is far more a sign of stupidity than banning something before the season gets underway.

[spankyham]

Other devices which have been recently banned (such as the f-duct and blown diffusers) have exploited grey areas where there are solid arguments for and against banned them. Lotus's trick suspension seems to be a lot more clear cut than some of the other banned gadgets.

Look, I really don't think this would have been a deal breaker in terms of performance, so I don't think you'll be seeing Lotus et al loosing much sleep over it being banned.

What I find ridiculous is the FiA's inconsistency. They ban this immediately because there's moving parts and the prime purpose is to gain aero benefit - hello! Extreme Overrun - LOL. They are a bunch of stupid jackasses and they just make themselves look more stupid.

I think the mistakes of last year are why they are doing it so early. Banning something midway through a season is far more a sign of stupidity than banning something before the season gets underway.

Completely agree, and it just makes their actions last year, (to let it go when they could have/should have banned it at the start) even more stupid.

[racechick]

Other devices which have been recently banned (such as the f-duct and blown diffusers) have exploited grey areas where there are solid arguments for and against banned them. Lotus's trick suspension seems to be a lot more clear cut than some of the other banned gadgets.

Look, I really don't think this would have been a deal breaker in terms of performance, so I don't think you'll be seeing Lotus et al loosing much sleep over it being banned.

What I find ridiculous is the FiA's inconsistency. They ban this immediately because there's moving parts and the prime purpose is to gain aero benefit - hello! Extreme Overrun - LOL. They are a bunch of stupid jackasses and they just make themselves look more stupid.

I think the mistakes of last year are why they are doing it so early. Banning something midway through a season is far more a sign of stupidity than banning something before the season gets underway.

Completely agree, and it just makes their actions last year, (to let it go when they could have/should have banned it at the start) even more stupid.

But Bernie wants Sebastian to marry Tamara. He cant have her marrying a nobody, not little Tamara. She has to have the best of everything. He will have to be a multiple champion. And it keeps Sebastian sweet.

[darwin dali]

Other devices which have been recently banned (such as the f-duct and blown diffusers) have exploited grey areas where there are solid arguments for and against banned them. Lotus's trick suspension seems to be a lot more clear cut than some of the other banned gadgets.

Look, I really don't think this would have been a deal breaker in terms of performance, so I don't think you'll be seeing Lotus et al loosing much sleep over it being banned.

What I find ridiculous is the FiA's inconsistency. They ban this immediately because there's moving parts and the prime purpose is to gain aero benefit - hello! Extreme Overrun - LOL. They are a bunch of stupid jackasses and they just make themselves look more stupid.

I think the mistakes of last year are why they are doing it so early. Banning something midway through a season is far more a sign of stupidity than banning something before the season gets underway.

Completely agree, and it just makes their actions last year, (to let it go when they could have/should have banned it at the start) even more stupid.

But Bernie wants Sebastian to marry Tamara. He cant have her marrying a nobody, not little Tamara. She has to have the best of everything. He will have to be a multiple champion. And it keeps Sebastian sweet.

Huh? He's already a multiple champion.

[Hammer278]

Yeah, they were talking about the 'manipulation' of 2011. If it didn't go RBs way, Vettel wouldn't be multiple champ now would he.