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[spankyham]

not the end of the world but just another nail in a long string of bad decisions that have gone against Ferrari. As I said previously, it would be nice to get one go our way.

You're kidding me right? Like Ferrari have been so hard done by over the years anything that goes against them now doesn't nearly make up for everything that went their way in the past decade not to mention the special treatment they get from FOM with prize money. Ferrari can cry me a river, still not the ocean of injustice gone against the rest of the field.

Well, I guess we all have our own perspective. I'd say we've been on the receiving end in the worst way this decade and we've had quite a few stinkers before that as well. Best to move on though. And in the present, I'd like us to be on the good side of a decision soon.

[vaptin]

At least banning it now, is better than banning it half-way through the season. From the wording of the rules and the way we've been told the device operates it does seem pretty straight forward.

But insiders say that, once it became clear its main role was to improve aerodynamics, banning it was a "no-brainer".

Article 3.15 of the F1 technical regulations requires that any aerodynamic effect created by the suspension should be incidental to its primary function.

It further states that any device that influences the car's aerodynamics "must remain immobile in relation to the spring part of the car".

I guess we could raise questions, about FIA consistency and competence, as they initially stated the device was legal.

The two teams were initially told the device, which aims to keep the car stable during braking, was legal.

But following further investigations, and representations from rival teams, the FIA has changed its view.

Rival teams trying to get innovations banned is nothing new, and hardly unique or even led by Ferrari. You could call into question why the FIA need it pointed out to them though, shouldn't they, in the majority of cases, be able to stand by their own decisions? But of course F1 cars and the rules are complex.

In terms of consistency, with the blown diffusers issue, it was something the FIA declared legal, then illegal, but decided to wait until the end of the season to ban it .Not quite comparable this time as it's pre-season and pre-pre-season testing), and with the blown diffusers all the teams agreed to let it slide.

I'm guessing a legal challenge could also work in reverse? If the FIA banned something that the teams thought was legal, we've seen legal challenges in terms of the FIA allowing something that some teams thought was illegal.

The most interesting point was this:

An FIA insider said Lotus and Ferrari seemed unconcerned at the decision to ban the device

Maybe it's simply subjective bias, Lotus and Ferrari won't tell the FIA how important it is to their car, it's irrelevant, so maybe all we can infer is that they were expecting the decision and don't feel like challenging or protesting it.

Or maybe they're working on an alternative, legal version.

Or maybe it wasn't that important anyway. Thanks to stringent rules, innovation is now relatively rare in f1, so it is picked up on and over emphasised any time it comes up.

[stonemonkey]

Let's ban everything that doesn't suit Ferrari...

In fact this is very bad news for Ferrari as they have it (confirmed in the Pitpass article). Yet another FiA decision that has gone against SF, hopefully our luck with rulings will change soon.

Whether it's bad news or not would depend on how well they got it working, as Horner has said 'it's about how they work and how they are integrated in the car'.
To have your car designed around having this system from the start and then to have it banned is very bad news, if you've tried to fit it into a car that's been designdod without it then it's not so bad, particularly if the design of your car doesn't allow it to be used to full effect.

As it was completed last December I'd guess it was pretty integrated. For sure it will have diverted a lot of resources and money on something the FiA had previously said was legal. Not the end of the world but just another nail in a long string of bad decisions that have gone against Ferrari. As I said previously, it would be nice to get one go our way.

All I had seen was that Ferrari submitted a design for it in december so didn't think it was something the rest of the car had been designed around.

Anyway, putting my conspiracy hat back on for a moment there's some things in this that make me think there could be more to this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula ... 664827.stm

I've heard before that if one team suspects another of having something illegal they can't just go to the FIA without proof and ask them to investigate, one way around that is for them to do themselves what they suspect the other team is doing and then get themselves investigated.

For some time I think everyone's suspected redbull of having some sort of ride height control built into the car somehow so now with this rule being enforced:

Article 3.15 of the F1 technical regulations requires that any aerodynamic effect created by the suspension should be incidental to its primary function.

I wonder if the FIA will now investigate all other teams too to ensure no one else has anything performing a similar function.

Might explain:

An FIA insider said Lotus and Ferrari seemed unconcerned at the decision to ban the device.

[bud]

not the end of the world but just another nail in a long string of bad decisions that have gone against Ferrari. As I said previously, it would be nice to get one go our way.

You're kidding me right? Like Ferrari have been so hard done by over the years anything that goes against them now doesn't nearly make up for everything that went their way in the past decade not to mention the special treatment they get from FOM with prize money. Ferrari can cry me a river, still not the ocean of injustice gone against the rest of the field.

Well, I guess we all have our own perspective. I'd say we've been on the receiving end in the worst way this decade and we've had quite a few stinkers before that as well. Best to move on though. And in the present, I'd like us to be on the good side of a decision soon.

This decade so from 2010/11? How about all the help you received from 2000 to 2008? And like I said lets not mention the prize money farce. Funny hearing Ferrari fans claiming they are hard done by. It's like an American saying I only got to eat two hamburgers today instead of 3 to a Somalian.

[spankyham]

2007 was probably an all time low, and we were on the wrong end of that. And yes we negotiate good contracts.

But hey, its Chinese New Year, so hope its a good one for you too mate.

[myownalias]

I think it's a poor show from the FIA, again stifling innovation and even worse, a few weeks ago it was legal, Lotus asked the FIA for clarification and submitted their plans for legality checks, so have probably gone full steam ahead with the development and manufacture of parts they can no longer use. I believe the governing body should be held financially responsible for such actions, it's wholly wrong to approve an innovation only to change their mind, they should have done their homework before approving it in the first place place, not weeks later!

[Hammer278]

not the end of the world but just another nail in a long string of bad decisions that have gone against Ferrari. As I said previously, it would be nice to get one go our way.

You're kidding me right? Like Ferrari have been so hard done by over the years anything that goes against them now doesn't nearly make up for everything that went their way in the past decade not to mention the special treatment they get from FOM with prize money. Ferrari can cry me a river, still not the ocean of injustice gone against the rest of the field.

Well, I guess we all have our own perspective. I'd say we've been on the receiving end in the worst way this decade and we've had quite a few stinkers before that as well. Best to move on though. And in the present, I'd like us to be on the good side of a decision soon.

This decade so from 2010/11? How about all the help you received from 2000 to 2008? And like I said lets not mention the prize money farce. Funny hearing Ferrari fans claiming they are hard done by. It's like an American saying I only got to eat two hamburgers today instead of 3 to a Somalian.

Not to mention their horrible sportsmanship....getting anything and everything banned which doesn't benefit them. My intense dislike of that team started when they screwed up Mercedes' Beryllium R&D when McLaren were just starting to do well, and then who comes along crying foul like a brat, yes Ferrari...and the FIA duly bans the substance. I remember since then Mercedes engines were blowing left right and center for the next 5 years as they were completely lost with their development process since the ban.

[bud]

2007 was probably an all time low, and we were on the wrong end of that. And yes we negotiate good contracts.

But hey, its Chinese New Year, so hope its a good one for you too mate.

I saw 07 as Ferrari using their political might to make a situation work to their advantage. Toyota used Ferrari information in a far more advanced manner, yet Ferrari didn't go after them with the same gusto.

It's ok I like how Ferrari is just another team now with regards to the FIA, even with their own team principal at the helm which makes it even more gratifying.

[LewEngBridewell]

This is a good rant, so I thought I would throw some more Scuderia dislike into the mix!

I have never liked Ferrari, but the final nail was drilled into the coffin after 2002. They are the ONE team these days that get the fans worked up in a tornado of disbelief and they will probably continue to do so. Forcing Rubens Barrichello to move aside for Michael Schumacher in the 2001 Austrian GP was bad enough and it caused a big stir with the fans. But the fact that the team had the arrogance, the stupidity and sheer dickheadedness to do the same thing at the same event in the following year's event IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE SEASON is atrocious. I understand team-orders are sometimes necessary, but that was too blatant and too early in the year. They couldn't stop there, and the US fans were left disillusioned after the Grand Prix at Indianapolis in the same year.

Oh and then we've got the 2010 German GP, which was blatant disregard of the (then) rules, followed by an adamant denial that such a thing had happened.

It seems Ferrari are constantly occupying themselves with making F1 the laughing stock of the sporting world, which was the case after all these events I've just mentioned! Fans booing, awful newspaper headlines, people giving up on watching F1... yeah thank you Ferrari you w ers.

One more thing I'd like to add.

We British fans cheered Fernando Alonso after the race at Silverstone last year. The grandstands were dominated by McLaren supporters, with odd scatterings of tifosi and RBR fans. But despite the result, we all got up and cheered out of good sportsmanship, the fact we'd watched a bloody good race and because we had some damned RESPECT.

What happened after Monza last year? Sebastian Vettel and Jenson Button were booed on the podium by the tifosi. It was astonishing! It was the usual nutters draped in red, displaying their usual bigoted one-sidedness and proving that they...like the Ferrari team, are hopelessly bad loosers.

I'm sorry, but like bud and Hammer, I loath Ferrari intensely, and that rant has been brewing for a long time. Many apologies spankyham, you are not like most of the tifosi, and I therefore enjoy having you on the forum, and the rant is not sent in your direction. Sadly, it appears that your open mind and consideration of supporters of other teams sets you apart from the usual rabble.

[scotty]

Thought this thread was about Lotus, not a McLaren supporter witchhunt.

[andrew]

Maybe this thread should be loacked or tidied up lest AKR turns up.

[LewEngBridewell]

Maybe this thread should be loacked or tidied up lest AKR turns up.

No need for that yet. You and racechick have derailed threads much more heavily than this, with your relentless bickering.

[andrew]

Maybe this thread should be loacked or tidied up lest AKR turns up.

No need for that yet. You and racechick have derailed threads much more heavily than this, with your relentless bickering.

Yeah, but none of them would offend AKR. He is truly scary when he starts going. Besides, I never said I was entirely innocent.

[LewEngBridewell]

Maybe this thread should be loacked or tidied up lest AKR turns up.

No need for that yet. You and racechick have derailed threads much more heavily than this, with your relentless bickering.

Yeah, but none of them would offend AKR. He is truly scary when he starts going. Besides, I never said I was entirely innocent.

AKR is a woman

[andrew]

Maybe this thread should be loacked or tidied up lest AKR turns up.

No need for that yet. You and racechick have derailed threads much more heavily than this, with your relentless bickering.

Yeah, but none of them would offend AKR. He is truly scary when he starts going. Besides, I never said I was entirely innocent.

AKR is a woman

Regardless of what they are, they are scary in their devotion to the reds.