FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[andrew]

And the fault really has to come back to the ticket guy who was the official person who should have dealt with it.

No it doesn't. The ticket collector did everything he was trained to do i.e. try and reason with a moron. If a member of the public takes it upon themselves to step in then that's their issue, not the ticket collectors. It's not as if the big yin was another kid, they are a mature adult so they knew exactly what they were doing.

Its NOT their issue....no member of the general public has the right to take the law in their own hands. Where do you live btw?

The ticket collector should have the right to kick the kid out, and that too not by himself - it has to involve the proper authorities...security guard at the station? Police even? IF force is required.

In this instance force was not required as yet, as the passengers were only getting delayed. It was not an emergency situation and no one in that train had any right to manhandle the kid.

I live on planet earth and that's all you need to know.

See this by Bud:

C'mon Hammer the kid was basically stealing! You telling me if you saw a crime happen you'd do nothing?

I have no sympathy for the little s***, he should learn some respect! I commend the guy for kicking him out! And to hell with fears of safety for the little s***! If he paid then no problems for him.

Can't really add anymore. That's my opinion right there.

Having been in a similar situation many years ago I can understand the big yin's thinking. Legally, he's committed common assult but looking at the bigger picture, he did the right thing. Booted the little s*** off with no injuries other than that to his pride (tough!), let the train get away so that it can try and stick to its' timetable and let everyone get to where they were going.

As expected, the Big Yin has been charged with assault: Train eviction video: 'Big Man' is charged

[racechick]

Well of course he's been charged. Regardless of how morally correct his actions were and how obnoxious the kid was, it wasnt his job to act in that way. Its nothing to do with political corectness. The ticket collector allowed that guy to put himself in danger(of prosecution and possible imprisonment). It wasnt the way to deal with the situation.

[bud]

And the little shits lesson in life is? He can get away with anything he likes. Gotta life our modern society.

[Hammer278]

I live on planet earth and that's all you need to know.


As expected, the Big Yin has been charged with assault: Train eviction video: 'Big Man' is charged

It's harder to believe that as I see more of your posts.

And in the same post, you say 'as expected, Big Yin (the guy you're defending) has been charged'.....whatever you do, please don't go into law.

[bud]

This fear of reprisal by passers by to step in and do the right thing and help someone in need is what's causing our society to turn to s***. The good Samaritan is no more for he shall fear the wrath of the law!

[racechick]

And the little shits lesson in life is? He can get away with anything he likes. Gotta life our modern society.

Well the little s*** should have got thrown off the train anyway....but officially. And then for good measure ban him from using trains. By the passenger getting involved the little s*** can now feel some measure of victory, and that could have been avoided.

[darwin dali]

This fear of reprisal by passers by to step in and do the right thing and help someone in need is what's causing our society to turn to s***. The good Samaritan is no more for he shall fear the wrath of the law!

I've always been for anarchy - Bakunin FTW!!

[bud]

Im not talking anarchy, I'm talking this fear of being sued or charged with a crime is making way for people not helping others in need. You no longer see people stop at an accident to help, you never see someone stopping by if it appears someone is being mugged or god knows what. People are afraid to get involved not only because they fear for their own safety but also because they don't want to get anything against them in terms of the law. Its pathetic the way society is going.

Just turn your blinkers on and keep walking.

i commend the "big man" even still he has been charged, i wonder if the police have charged the kid? doubt it, the criminals always get off easy.

[acosmichippo]

Funny, you say "good Samaritan", I say "vigilante".

You know, I actually agree that over-litigation is a horrible trend lately, maybe even moreso here in the US. But that's a separate issue entirely. The issue here is one of public safety, and escalation of a non-violent situation into a violent one when there were other options available. I think this'll be my last post in this thread. Don't know how many other ways I can reiterate the same point.

[bud]

Don't they have in the US a citizens arrest? Isn't that vigilantism?

[racechick]

A friend of mine has twice done a citizens arrest. Once someone tyring to nick a car, and once walking out of uni halls with a tele that my friend recognised. he got them both times. The difference is, in those two cases there was no official there, on the train there was. Take it a step further and you have any Tom sausage or Harry jumping in and 'helping' police as they make arrests. You cant have that.

I know what your saying Bud and I agree that we've gone far too soft on perptrators of crime and hard on the victims.But thats the judges. Where do we find these dickheads from??

There was a recent spate of people defending their homes and families from armed robbers, injuring or killing the robbers and then being prosecuted. Thankfully after a public outcry that seems to be going out of fashion now.

But let me tell you two stories of judges acting like complete idiots.

Story1
Last Christmas, opposite my local pub a van lost control on icy roads and smashed into a small furniture makers workshop. The workshop is still boarded up and unusable. The coupl who own it are struggling with their business now and have no money for repairs. The guy who did it was not insured. The judge fined him £25 and banned him from driving for two weeks.
Lesson. Dont bother getting insured, the fine is way cheaper than a year's insurance.

Story2
This was on the news. Woman out walking her small dog is attacked by two huge dogs. She is put in hospital with severe facial wounds, her dog is dead. The judge decided to take no action. He couldnt put the dog down because he didnt know which one did it and it would be unfair to put down the wrong one.

Now this sort of action from judges does cause vigilantism. But I still claim the train incident was different. A proper and enforced punishment for perpetrators of crime wouldnt go amiss.

[acosmichippo]

Don't they have in the US a citizens arrest? Isn't that vigilantism?

I'm not very familiar with the legislation, but according to wikipedia, most states allow citizen's arrests if a felony has been witnessed first-hand. Regardless, just because there's a provision for it in our laws, doesn't mean it's appropriate for every situation. It's a risk/reward calculation: what are the potential benefits versus the potential dangers? Could I be endangering others with my actions, or just myself? I personally don't think a citizen should have the ability to risk harming people in their vicinity just because they think they're doing the right thing. Who are you to gamble with bystanders' well-being?

In this particular situation we have the benefit that the train would not get delayed a few minutes while police escort the kid off the train. On the other hand, the drawbacks could have been a large brawl breaking out, the kid pulling out a weapon and injuring any number of people in that densely packed train, the kid being unnecessarily injured himself (yes I understand you don't care about this, but he hardly deserves serious injury that could have occurred), etc. So a few minutes delay vs possible physical injury to anyone on that train... seems like a no-brainer to me.

[What's Burning?]

Coulda shoulda woulda, this is out of control now. You guys can go all day with what ifs, what if the guy would have had a bomb strapped to him and didn't get to set it off in a full train because he was kicked out? WTF... it's pointless to talk about other potential outcomes now.

The official in the train, didn't do his job properly, wasn't trained to deal with that type of situation properly and should have been. The samaritan should certainly not be charged with a crime given the way we expect citizens to behave in society, and any competent judge should throw the charges out. The kid, should be charged and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, that's all folks.

[acosmichippo]

thank you for that thoroughly authoritative post. the great WB has spoken. close thread.

[What's Burning?]

don't take it the wrong way, the season is over and there's nothing else to talk about... you're welcomed to continue discussing it, or poke holes in my logic, you could change someone's mind.