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[racechick]

Considering team orders are permitted, i dont see the reason for RB to go out of their way to make it look like anything... however, the whole thing looked conspiracy-ish...

Webber strenuously objects to use of team orders, even if he is the beneficiary.

He was non too happy at the end of the race.........his first win for some time. It was commented on by the broadcasting team. But he seemed ok on the podium.

[acosmichippo]

So its possible to survive..... though it would be slower, and he would not be banging in fastest laps

fuel loads dropping? Track rubbering down? Many factors why this would be the case. Him short shifting in the lower gearing would only have affected him in the infield, (where we saw him go off track incedently) partly S2 and S3 so say about 1/3 of the lap. Sebs fastest lap was 7 tenths slower than Webbers fastest lap set 3 laps after Sebs fastest. Sebs fastest time was near identicals to Fernando's which was also set around the same time, 3 laps earlier While Jenson was faster by 5 tenths He set his fastest 2 laps before Fernando's. See a common factor here? Fastest laps being set at the end of GPs when track is rubbered in after 60 odd laps added to the fuel loads lowering Sebs however is considerably slower than his team mates or Buttons.
It's not hard to fathom this but we are asking someone who sees a Martin Whitmarsh conspiracy here.

It's not a matter of opinion it's a matter of facts. People who think it was a set up have no facts just opinions. I put forward facts what have they put forward other than opinion?
I couldn't care about forums who think it was a set up, some people think the moon landing was faked still to this day. There's always going to be idiots out there who see what they want to see.

End of the day Webber fans can take no solace in him winning due to mechanical issues for his team mate, it was hardly a return to dominant wins of the likes we saw last season.

And yet none of these facts prove anything other than the team told him to slow down. The question is why, which we will never truly know.

[bud]

We know why, I know why. unless you want to believe in far fetched conspiracies you'll never know so be my guest.

[LewEngBridewell]

He was non too happy at the end of the race.........his first win for some time. It was commented on by the broadcasting team. But he seemed ok on the podium.

Well when you think about it, it's probably the fact that he's had a terrible year while his double-world champion team-mate has dominated... and the ONE win that came his way occurred when Seb had mechanical problems... Team orders or not, I still wouldn't be over the moon that my team-mate had to have problems in order for me to register a sole victory.

[racechick]

Yep. Good point.

[andrew]

He was non too happy at the end of the race.........his first win for some time. It was commented on by the broadcasting team. But he seemed ok on the podium.

Well when you think about it, it's probably the fact that he's had a terrible year while his double-world champion team-mate has dominated... and the ONE win that came his way occurred when Seb had mechanical problems... Team orders or not, I still wouldn't be over the moon that my team-mate had to have problems in order for me to register a sole victory.

It was a hollow win but a win none-the-less. The whole race had an end of term feel where no one looked like they could be bothered.

[LewEngBridewell]

He was non too happy at the end of the race.........his first win for some time. It was commented on by the broadcasting team. But he seemed ok on the podium.

Well when you think about it, it's probably the fact that he's had a terrible year while his double-world champion team-mate has dominated... and the ONE win that came his way occurred when Seb had mechanical problems... Team orders or not, I still wouldn't be over the moon that my team-mate had to have problems in order for me to register a sole victory.

It was a hollow win but a win none-the-less. The whole race had an end of term feel where no one looked like they could be bothered.

Hardly up to the standards of 2008, for example.

[racechick]

I like Bamber's cartoon this week




Ive still not made my mind up on this one....maybe I never will, but further info which casts a little doubt is this observation........

on-board footage with graphics during a few of the ¨shift up early¨ messages, showed that at no point did Seb shift up before the end of the red zone of the rev counter graphic. All gears seemed to be engaging normally too.

[bud]

How can you make assumptions about a state of a gearbox just from watching onboard footage? I guess Redbulls telemetry data the engineers receive is pointless, they should just watch the tv huh?

[Hammer278]

How can you make assumptions about a state of a gearbox just from watching onboard footage? I guess Redbulls telemetry data the engineers receive is pointless, they should just watch the tv huh?

So maybe a few of us choose to NOT believe what Redbull reveal publicly. Or what they claim? What's the big deal in that....I don't get it. We do not all have to believe the same thing now do we.

And I don't see anyone who is dead on about Redbull making it up, but its simply 50-50. I'm in this subset, and I have many reasons to back myself up. Businesses are mostly based on lies in the end of the day, but you never know when they're telling the truth as well.

[bud]

To what end do we question what's said? I guess we are dealing with F1 fans always some conspiracy involved in everything.

I just don't get what's so hard to believe about a mechanical issue in a mechanical sport...

[Hammer278]

To what end do we question what's said? I guess we are dealing with F1 fans always some conspiracy involved in everything.

I just don't get what's so hard to believe about a mechanical issue in a mechanical sport...

In Brazil one year Rubens was leading Michael until a point where his car just came to a standstill. Ferrari officially declared that it was a fuel pump issue. Rubens joined Brawn and declared that Ferrari had simply misjudged the fuel amount and his car ran dry. There was no mechanical issue.

So who do you trust? No one.

[acosmichippo]

I just don't get what's so hard to believe about a mechanical issue in a mechanical sport...

Nothing. Likewise, what's so hard to believe about Red Bull scheming to get Webber #2 in the Drivers' Championship without pissing off either driver and without contradicting their public "no team orders" claims?

I typically subscribe to the Occam's Razor mindset as well, but given the secretive and competitive nature of Red Bull, I wouldn't put it past them. And none of the "facts" I've heard to the contrary prove his gearbox actually had a problem - just that he wasn't driving 100%.

[andrew]

I like Bamber's cartoon this week




Ive still not made my mind up on this one....maybe I never will, but further info which casts a little doubt is this observation........

on-board footage with graphics during a few of the ¨shift up early¨ messages, showed that at no point did Seb shift up before the end of the red zone of the rev counter graphic. All gears seemed to be engaging normally too.

I wouldn't read too much into the on-board footage. The radio transmissions are never totally in-sync with what's going on. The repeated requests for Vettel to shift up early suggest that he wasn't listening to what he was being ordered to do. Without any facts to contradict I think the dodgy gearbox has to be taken at face value until confirmed otherwise.