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[racechick]

They both went to Red Bull, not just lewis. As I said before, Jenson is just better at playing the games.

When did JB go to Red Bull? do have a link to an article, I remember reading a lot about LH visiting Horner but nothing about JB (and no I don't have selective reading/hearing )

Yes. Here it is. http://www.crash.net/f1/news/159710/1/r ... ummer.html

[Hamilonso]

oh, well your both wrong.

An opinion can never be wrong, by definition, an opinion can not be wrong...

Bottom line is none of us know what exactly is going on behind closed doors, I formed my opinion by the first half of the season where LH was complaining about the car a lot; then suddenly goes to see Christian Horner behind Red Bull closed doors, which sends a message "if you (McLaren) can't provide me with the fastest car, I'll be gone in 2013 to a team that can". Again it's just an opinion!

They both ouright said all what? three of us were just making excuses, we clearly werent. they are indebatably wrong.

[myownalias]

They both went to Red Bull, not just lewis. As I said before, Jenson is just better at playing the games.

When did JB go to Red Bull? do have a link to an article, I remember reading a lot about LH visiting Horner but nothing about JB (and no I don't have selective reading/hearing )

Yes. Here it is. http://www.crash.net/f1/news/159710/1/r ... ummer.html

Not the same thing though; JB approached Red Bull in the summer of 2009 according to that article; way before he signed with McLaren. At that point, JB was on a one year contract with Brawn and looking for drive for 2010, not the same as going to see Horner very publicly in Montreal, LH could have been much more discrete; I think that visit by LH was sending a message to McLaren!

[racechick]

They both went to Red Bull, not just lewis. As I said before, Jenson is just better at playing the games.

When did JB go to Red Bull? do have a link to an article, I remember reading a lot about LH visiting Horner but nothing about JB (and no I don't have selective reading/hearing )

Yes. Here it is. http://www.crash.net/f1/news/159710/1/r ... ummer.html

Not the same thing though; JB approached Red Bull in the summer of 2009 according to that article; way before he signed with McLaren. At that point, JB was on a one year contract with Brawn and looking for drive for 2010, not the same as going to see Horner very publicly in Montreal, LH could have been much more discrete; I think that visit by LH was sending a message to McLaren!

Oh I see, so its only bad if you drive for McLaren, and you're up front about it. If you drive for Brawn and have just been given a championship winning car... but you're a bit sneaky about how you negotiate, and you tell a few porkies about the terms Brawn are offering you,then thats ok.
Lewis' contact is up next year .

[myownalias]

They both went to Red Bull, not just lewis. As I said before, Jenson is just better at playing the games.

When did JB go to Red Bull? do have a link to an article, I remember reading a lot about LH visiting Horner but nothing about JB (and no I don't have selective reading/hearing )

Yes. Here it is. http://www.crash.net/f1/news/159710/1/r ... ummer.html

Not the same thing though; JB approached Red Bull in the summer of 2009 according to that article; way before he signed with McLaren. At that point, JB was on a one year contract with Brawn and looking for drive for 2010, not the same as going to see Horner very publicly in Montreal, LH could have been much more discrete; I think that visit by LH was sending a message to McLaren!

Oh I see, so its only bad if you drive for McLaren, and you're up front about it. If you drive for Brawn and have just been given a championship winning car... but you're a bit sneaky about how you negotiate, and you tell a few porkies about the terms Brawn are offering you,then thats ok.
Lewis' contact is up next year .

No, that's not what I said! JB's contract at Brawn had less than six months to run and negotiations had seemingly stalled with Brawn, so he looked at other options, through his agent; that can not be compared to LH going to CH in front of everyone in Canada (while having 18 months to run on his contract), that is sending a message to Martin Whitmarsh and McLaren...

I understand your passion for LH; but you are grasping at straws claiming the two situations are the same!

[Big Azza]

I think we have too many threads about Hamilton and Button, and this could probably go in the now derailed Whitmarsh thread.

Quite simply, Button is a team player. Hamilton not so much. Has anyone considered that, like Alonso, Hamilton perhaps doesn't like having a good team mate? Being a team player is more than just focussing on the drivers around you and trying to beat them, it's about developing the car, having a good race strategy etc. I don't see that side of Hamilton as much as Button.

I don't think Button has done it in a ruthless way like Alonso did though. I think he has simply just gone there, got on with the team well, and used his experience to help develop the car. His strategising has also helped McLaren get better results at times then they deserve.

I can't seem to recall Hamilton putting in a Button-at-Canada-esque drive. Hamilton is showing this year that fastest doesn't always win races.

[Hammer278]

let's stay on topic shall we?

There's a religion thread or two here that this can be taken over to if you really want to discuss it.

Thanks WB. It was high time to be honest.

RC, I think your new thread 'Team button' could be merged with this one. Its a good extension, and I agree to an extent, Button plays the politics as he knows he can't match Lewis on driving skill anyway. And Buttons doing a good job.

It's up to Lewis to adapt himself now. To the car which Button prefers. But I think he has enough talent to beat Button in Buttons car, so no worries there. He should play it cool and just wait for an opening in Redbull or hopefully Mercedes (when they are at the front) and jump ship then. Keep McLaren guessing till then.

[Hammer278]

I think we have too many threads about Hamilton and Button, and this could probably go in the now derailed Whitmarsh thread.

Quite simply, Button is a team player. Hamilton not so much. Has anyone considered that, like Alonso, Hamilton perhaps doesn't like having a good team mate? Being a team player is more than just focussing on the drivers around you and trying to beat them, it's about developing the car, having a good race strategy etc. I don't see that side of Hamilton as much as Button.

I don't think Button has done it in a ruthless way like Alonso did though. I think he has simply just gone there, got on with the team well, and used his experience to help develop the car. His strategising has also helped McLaren get better results at times then they deserve.

I can't seem to recall Hamilton putting in a Button-at-Canada-esque drive. Hamilton is showing this year that fastest doesn't always win races.

Yeah, I cant recall either, but I recall better ones. Like Nurburgring this year or China. Or even Korea. Button crashed out Hamilton and Alonso and then won the race thanks to a stupid mistake by Vettel. Hardly heroic.

And yes, Button plays the politics very well. You can see it in his mannerisms. The clearest indication for me was Turkey last year. Both cars told to hold station, and Button conveniently "I didnt hear it I didnt hear it" and tried to steal the win away from Lewis...lost the battle, and then went to Lewis like an apologetic puppy asking for forgiveness.

Lets not forget as well Frank Williams himself quoting something along the lines of "A contract is an obligation to the team. What Jenson did was break an obligation and this does not show esteem from a driver and business perspective". This was when Button bought himself out of the contract to move to Honda if not mistaken...AFTER signing a brand new contract with WIlliams.

He's a dirty son of a gun, but has the big smiles and the hot girlfriend for the camera. He should run for Prime Minister once he's done with F1.

[acosmichippo]

They both went to Red Bull, not just lewis. As I said before, Jenson is just better at playing the games.

When did JB go to Red Bull? do have a link to an article, I remember reading a lot about LH visiting Horner but nothing about JB (and no I don't have selective reading/hearing )

Yes. Here it is. http://www.crash.net/f1/news/159710/1/r ... ummer.html

Not the same thing though; JB approached Red Bull in the summer of 2009 according to that article; way before he signed with McLaren. At that point, JB was on a one year contract with Brawn and looking for drive for 2010, not the same as going to see Horner very publicly in Montreal, LH could have been much more discrete; I think that visit by LH was sending a message to McLaren!

Oh I see, so its only bad if you drive for McLaren, and you're up front about it. If you drive for Brawn and have just been given a championship winning car... but you're a bit sneaky about how you negotiate, and you tell a few porkies about the terms Brawn are offering you,then thats ok.
Lewis' contact is up next year .

No, that's not what I said! JB's contract at Brawn had less than six months to run and negotiations had seemingly stalled with Brawn, so he looked at other options, through his agent; that can not be compared to LH going to CH in front of everyone in Canada (while having 18 months to run on his contract), that is sending a message to Martin Whitmarsh and McLaren...

I understand your passion for LH; but you are grasping at straws claiming the two situations are the same!

agreed in full. This "Jenson/Whitmarsh are killing Lewis" stuff is getting rather old.

[bud]

Again race chick it seems to me you're looking too deeply into things, in your mind you believe without a doubt and treat it as fact that Hanilton is bothered about Button. There in lies the problem, you're making assumptions again this is not logical but an emotional reaction to Lewis' poor form.

Btw every driver has a team around him. Button is no different so why the thread? Seems we have 3 or more on Jenson being favored on here. kinda makes this place less appealing.

[bud]

I think we'll have to amiably agree to end the discussion as its not on topic (my fault i think ) and debated enough.


Plus theres a moderator involved now, deadly serious..........

Yeah lucky you had your last say even after WB message... Amiably my bottom meh I know you're wrong so couldn't give a toss!!!

[oaba09]

Jenson usually avoids controversies(on track and off track). This is probably the reason why he's more liked in mclaren(please note that more liked is not equal to #1 driver).

I believe that as far as upgrades and treatment is concerned, mclaren is still sticking to their "no #1 driver policy". I believe that mclaren has treated both drivers fairly on a professional level. It just so happens that members of the team have a better personal relationship w/ button compared to hamilton.

It's not the fault of mclaren that lewis is struggling. He's just going through a rough patch(every driver does at least once in their career).

[acosmichippo]

I can't wait until the fallout here when Jenson is marked in the #3 car and Lewis in the #4 car next year.

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

[darwin dali]

I can't wait until the fallout here when Jenson is marked in the #3 car and Lewis in the #4 car next year.

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

[bud]

I can't wait until the fallout here when Jenson is marked in the #3 car and Lewis in the #4 car next year.

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

Happened last year JB had the No1 LH No2