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[racechick]

It is so hard to work out whats going on. Id love to be a fly on the wall at McLaren.

[Hamilonso]

What Jenson has done is what Michael Schumacher has done on the past, completely integrate himself within the team. Lewis on the other hand (from an outside point of view) seems to just demand a faster car without putting the hard work into developing a faster car, this may not be the case as I am not within the team, just a theory I have come up with from watching from afar!

I dont think its fair to say he demands it, i take note of interviews etc and look at the body language and words, i think Lewis doesnt really know how to like some others, im sure hes around average at it, i mean unless Heikki did it, in 2009 he helped turn it round and Jonathon Neale outright said Lewis turned it round for us in 2009. I also think its unfair to say he doesnt put the work in, like he actively turns it down or something, cant agree with that at all.

But i agree Jenson is doing a schumacher, like vettel has done a schumacer, and alonso has done a schumacher. Lewis' resemblance to Senna in so many ways is incredible, personality, faith, style, he just oozes it, as such i think hes more determined to get given a car pace there or not, and win with it. Only ever interested in winning immediately your right, unlike the patient other drivers.

[Hamilonso]

But if its designed round Jenson?

They could put a horn in it that says " i had too much oversteer" " balance wasnt right" " was focused on a pigeon on my final run" and Lewis would still beat Button with it tbh

[Denthúl]

I think there are many reasons and the way Jenson has brought the team together around him is going to have made a huge impact. He's quick, experienced and can give good feedback, very marketable (seen these days as the nice guy, never really says anything controversial and doesn't seem to get 'moody' when things aren't going perfectly)..all things that the team are going to want. Over the course of this season, Jenson has seemed much, much closer to team personnel and his race engineers especially, whereas Lewis has seemed more distant.

There's also one other thing that I think helps Jenson and hinders Lewis. Since winning the title in 2009, Jenson has looked far more laid-back and relaxed, and even stated it himself. The pressure is off him now, he's got the title and his new goal (the reason he said he went to McLaren) was to pit himself against the top-tier drivers and prove he could compete. In 2010, he was very close to Lewis (and I feel he should have been closer in the final standings, but that's another discussion entirely) in what was Lewis' team, a car that was designed for a style far more aggressive than his, proving wrong those in the media who said that he would be blown away. On the other hand, Lewis puts himself under huge pressure. He wants more titles, everyone expects more titles from him and he wants to win at all costs. He sees Seb dominating in the Red Bull, a guy who he beat back in their junior years, and is frustrated because he feels he should have a car like that, able to fight for the win and the title at every event. He's not getting that at McLaren, even in 2008 it was a struggle and one wonders what might have happened if Kimi hadn't had the issues he did. So I feel that, along with the way Button is making the team his (I think if next year was to go the same as this year, the team would start looking to him as the natural leader (note that I don't mean #1 by this), is a major contributing factor to Lewis' unhappiness.

Edit: Uh. I just read that back to myself and it makes my brain hurt...but I can't be bothered fixing it.

[scotty]

Lots of assumptions here. Maybe it's just the tyres, maybe Button is simply doing a better job! Always some excuse

[racechick]

But if its designed round Jenson?

They could put a horn in it that says " i had too much oversteer" " balance wasnt right" " was focused on a pigeon on my final run" and Lewis would still beat Button with it tbh

[Hamilonso]

Lots of assumptions here. Maybe it's just the tyres, maybe Button is simply doing a better job! Always some excuse

[stonemonkey]

My question was, 'Is this whats bugging Lewis?' Fait accompli?
I agree,Jenson is far more coniving than Lewis, thats what i was saying. lewis cant do that. Obviously jens is a very good driver. But........ yep, all the other stuff you said.

Button (IMO) spent his early career in the wrong teams at the wrong time and went through a lot to get where he is whereas Hamilton went into a team at the top of their game and has watched it fall behind, their attitudes and how they deal with the team are gonna be different and likewise how the team respond to them. I'd maybe say more pragmatic than coniving.

[andrew]

Lots of assumptions here. Maybe it's just the tyres, maybe Button is simply doing a better job! Always some excuse

Ever heard of the simplest reason is usually the right one. The guy is having a crappy year (all drivers have a crappy year and it is usually just a case of ess aitch one tee happens) and Button is making hay whilst the sun shines on his side of the garage.

/thread

[Hamilonso]

Lots of assumptions here. Maybe it's just the tyres, maybe Button is simply doing a better job! Always some excuse

Ever heard of the simplest reason is usually the right one. The guy is having a crappy year (all drivers have a crappy year and it is usually just a case of ess aitch one tee happens) and Button is making hay whilst the sun shines on his side of the garage.

/thread

Are you thumbing my comment or.....?

I think if otherwise and your countering it, you and mr scotty should read all whats been said, dont confuse us talking about Hamiltons bad year as an excuse for Jenson beating him, both of us readily admitted it, apparently that werent good enough or something?

[andrew]

Lots of assumptions here. Maybe it's just the tyres, maybe Button is simply doing a better job! Always some excuse

Ever heard of the simplest reason is usually the right one. The guy is having a crappy year (all drivers have a crappy year and it is usually just a case of ess aitch one tee happens) and Button is making hay whilst the sun shines on his side of the garage.

/thread

Are you thumbing my comment or.....?

I think if otherwise and your countering it, you and mr scotty should read all whats been said, dont confuse us talking about Hamiltons bad year as an excuse for Jenson beating him, both of us readily admitted it, apparently that werent good enough or something?

My thump-up up was countering your thumb-down. I'm agreeing with Scotty.

[Hamilonso]

oh, well your both wrong.

[myownalias]

oh, well your both wrong.

An opinion can never be wrong, by definition, an opinion can not be wrong...

Bottom line is none of us know what exactly is going on behind closed doors, I formed my opinion by the first half of the season where LH was complaining about the car a lot; then suddenly goes to see Christian Horner behind Red Bull closed doors, which sends a message "if you (McLaren) can't provide me with the fastest car, I'll be gone in 2013 to a team that can". Again it's just an opinion!

[racechick]

They both went to Red Bull, not just lewis. As I said before, Jenson is just better at playing the games.

[myownalias]

They both went to Red Bull, not just lewis. As I said before, Jenson is just better at playing the games.

When did JB go to Red Bull? do have a link to an article, I remember reading a lot about LH visiting Horner but nothing about JB (and no I don't have selective reading/hearing )