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[racechick]

This has already been mentioned in the Singapore thread but I think its a biggie and should have its own thread.
It raises a few questions.
Would hamilton still have had a drive through if that commentary had been aired just before the collision?

What would the reaction have been had hamilton received a message telling him to 'destroy' another competitors race?

Why was massa instructed to destroy hamilton's race? he's no-where near him in the championship?

Why was Massa so indignant when hamilton did to massa what Massa was trying to do to Hamilton?

Was Massa really upset at realising once again he is being used by Ferrari as Alonso's pawn?

Is asking a driver to destroy another drivers race bringing the sport into disrepute?

[Denthúl]

The McLaren was faster than the Ferrari; Massa was instructed to hold Hamilton up to protect Alonso. I figured that would be pretty obvious, really. It's a team sport and it's part of team tactics, no doubt other teams make the same instructions from time to time. As long as both cars are on the same lap and no illegal moves are made, I don't really see a problem with it. The contact between the two was unfortunate, but I doubt it was Massa's (or Ferrari's) intention.

[racechick]

Then perhaps the instructions to hold hamilton up might have been preferable to 'destroy hamilton's race'. And Felippe is just a lapdog I guess so he will. But 'destroy' a competitors race?

[andrew]

This has already been mentioned in the Singapore thread but I think its a biggie and should have its own thread.

Really?

I guess it is unheard of for the number 2 driver to protect the number 1 driver in a team buy slowing the guy who is the main threat.

The McLaren was faster than the Ferrari; Massa was instructed to hold Hamilton up to protect Alonso. I figured that would be pretty obvious, really. It's a team sport and it's part of team tactics, no doubt other teams make the same instructions from time to time. As long as both cars are on the same lap and no illegal moves are made, I don't really see a problem with it. The contact between the two was unfortunate, but I doubt it was Massa's (or Ferrari's) intention.

What Denthúl said.

All teams do this but not all radio transmissions are broadcast. Most likely we only heard one of several similar instructions.

[Denthúl]

Then perhaps the instructions to hold hamilton up might have been preferable to 'destroy hamilton's race'. And Felippe is just a lapdog I guess so he will. But 'destroy' a competitors race?

Erm.

Hold Hamilton as much as we can. Destroy his race as much as we can. Come on, boy...

People are focusing too much on the word 'destroy' and taking it more literally than intended. Anything which makes it harder for a competitor to pass you and get a better result than you in the race can easily be classed as 'destroying' their race, especially if they appear to have better pace than you.

[andrew]

Anything which makes it harder for a competitor to pass you and get a better result than you in the race can easily be classed as 'destroying' their race, especially if they appear to have better pace than you.

For example, running into someones back tyre and giving them a puncture? Does that count as destroying someone's race?

[racechick]

Andrew take your antihamilton glasses of for a moment. Nobody INSTRUCTED lewis to destroy massa's race. it was a racing incident. a misjudgement.

And in answer to your first point the reason I think its a biggie is not because Felippe was instructed to protect Alonso(pathetic as that is) It was becuse he was instructed to destroy anothr drivers race.

[FerrariFan63]

If you make team orders legal, then you get team strategies. As we've already seen, even if team orders aren't legal, all the teams apply them anyhow. It's F1, get used to it.

However, I do think it odd that there's such a fuss about Massa being told to destroy Hamilton's race. When Hamilton himself actually DID destroy Hamilton's race. Surely that is much more worthy of criticism.

[bud]

Pretty pathetic instruction from the Ferrari employee, but this is their way, they have no honour.

[Denthúl]

And in answer to your first point the reason I think its a biggie is not because Felippe was instructed to protect Alonso(pathetic as that is) It was becuse he was instructed to destroy anothr drivers race.

I don't see where the problem is. He was instructed to do what is, basically, his job: keep Hamilton behind him as much as possible. The reason he was specifically given the instruction was to stop Hamilton getting a head of Alonso, which I think is safe to say he would have done without the drive-through.

[FerrariFan63]

Pretty pathetic instruction from the Ferrari employee, but this is their way, they have no honour.

It's not like they advised Massa to lie about letting another driver through behind the safety car so that the other driver received an undeserved penalty.

[bud]

And in answer to your first point the reason I think its a biggie is not because Felippe was instructed to protect Alonso(pathetic as that is) It was becuse he was instructed to destroy anothr drivers race.

I don't see where the problem is. He was instructed to do what is, basically, his job: keep Hamilton behind him as much as possible. The reason he was specifically given the instruction was to stop Hamilton getting a head of Alonso, which I think is safe to say he would have done without the drive-through.

The manner of the instructions is what the issue is here.

Pretty pathetic instruction from the Ferrari employee, but this is their way, they have no honour.

It's not like they advised Massa to lie about letting another driver through behind the safety car so that the other driver received an undeserved penalty.

Kinda like the Ferrari boys lying about the radio message in Germany?

[Denthúl]

And in answer to your first point the reason I think its a biggie is not because Felippe was instructed to protect Alonso(pathetic as that is) It was becuse he was instructed to destroy anothr drivers race.

I don't see where the problem is. He was instructed to do what is, basically, his job: keep Hamilton behind him as much as possible. The reason he was specifically given the instruction was to stop Hamilton getting a head of Alonso, which I think is safe to say he would have done without the drive-through.

The manner of the instructions is what the issue is here.

Again, still not a problem. He was asked to do nothing outside of the rules. If it had been "...destroy his race by taking him out", things would be different, but at the end of the day they were telling a driver to stop an opponent being able to get a better result.

[racechick]

If you make team orders legal, then you get team strategies. As we've already seen, even if team orders aren't legal, all the teams apply them anyhow. It's F1, get used to it.

However, I do think it odd that there's such a fuss about Massa being told to destroy Hamilton's race. When Hamilton himself actually DID destroy Hamilton's race. Surely that is much more worthy of criticism.

Ferrari was fined $100,000 for making Massa move over for Alonso at Germany last season. After that race, Jean Todt announced that the practice would be 'regulated', rather than banned or allowed outright.
The FIA though increased the fine which stewards can award to $250,000 for any team using coded instructions, 'as such messages would be used to deceive spectators and would require teams and drivers to lie to stewards in order to substantiate the claims made in the message'.

Thats the F1 ive got to get used to?

As I said before Hamilton wasnt INSTRUCED to ruin massa's race, and he received a penalty for the contact. So I dont understand the second point you're making. The fuss is about a driver being instructed to ruin another drivers race rather than concentrate on his own.

[bud]

Masses engineer should be concerned about Massa. The only race Ferrari really destroy every race is Massa's in treating him like a bitch.