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[FRAFPDD]

Andrew pretty much shut me up by reminding me who was favoured in 2007, but then firstly they were both new to that team, and secondly, they were both evenly matched.

Button is by and large always behind Lewis in races, so much so that a three race trot of finishing ahead and everyone suddenly thinks Jenson is the superior driver, thats how desperate that side of the argument is.

Now Whitmarsh is favouring him for no reason at all. If Mclaren werent so damn successful id be livid with him still driving for them, but at the moment theres nowhere else to go, although a move to Mercedes should they make it big has been rumoured in the past, Haug loves Hamilton.

Ron Dennis needs to stop toying around with road cars and see what everyone else is seeing, Whitmarsh who formerly probably loved Hamilton is now favouring Jenson. Heres a few incidents from the top of my head that arouse suspicion.


- Australia 2010, making Hamilton do an extra pit stop Jenson takes the lead whilst Hamilton is left to be knocked off by Webber (not for the first time)

- China 2010, Hamilton is done over by the team again and in turn finished behind Jenson when he was on for the win

- Turkey 2010 " i was told jenson wouldnt attack me" jenson " i wasnt told anything", again a sly attempt to get Jenson ahead, only Hamilton was having none of it, and subsequently showed him his place at turn one.

- Hungary 2011, Hamilton drives through the field like hes driving in the dry, overtaking everyone infront with ease, the team decide despite a repairable spin to put him on option. Who takes advantage, Button.

[racechick]

I think Mclaren provide equal equipment and have strict and fair rules on who pits and when. It doesnt always work out and lewis tends more often to be the loser. I can still accept thats just how its is. What I question is the moral and emotional support from Whitmarsh. Psychological well being is hugely important and I think Lewis is less strong than Jenson in that department which is why the crap with stewards, media, etc etc bothers him and gets to him. When he needs some support Whitmarsh is so far up Jenson's arse he doesnt even notice lewis is there. Of course there are times when Whimarsh comes out with platitudes but watch the body language

[Hammer278]

Im glad people are finally seeing what ive suspected from australia 2010.

Whitmarsh is a Button fan.

What made you put that sig there RC, was it that absolutely abbysmal bbc forum interview with jens and whitmarsh.

What did he say exactly. Is there a link or would appreciate if you could quote him roughly.

[FRAFPDD]

Im glad people are finally seeing what ive suspected from australia 2010.

Whitmarsh is a Button fan.

What made you put that sig there RC, was it that absolutely abbysmal bbc forum interview with jens and whitmarsh.

What did he say exactly. Is there a link or would appreciate if you could quote him roughly.

Its almost nothing to do with what he said, more his actions and body language, ive never seen him properly smile when Hamilton wins, Button came second and he was acting like the wdc has just come home to mclaren. ill post the link tomorrow.

[bud]

Was Whitmarsh driving Schumachers Mercedes?

[racechick]

Its not where the drivers finish in the race; its whitmarsh's reaction to what happens to them in the races. Youd have thought Mclaren had one two's at Spa and Monza by the overreaction of Whitmarsh but no, just a second and third for jenson. Nothing particularly awesome for Mclaren at those two circuits. After Spa when asked about lewis and Kobi he said but lets talk about Jenson lets celebrate that great drive.

One of his comments after Monza..amid much cosying and knee touching

"He's done some of the most spectacular drives in the history of F1 this year"

WHAT!!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS??? he's had a couple of good races. Now get the glasses of martin and get real.

[bud]

So he can only be complimentary of Lewis and not Jenson.
End of the day whitmarsh is not hindering anyone in the team I don't see anything untoward as I follow the team foremost not Lewis or Jenson. And both set of fans are claiming the other is being favored. Go figure.


Hey Fraf want me to make a list of the mistakes that have cost Jenson?

[myownalias]

Is this still rumbling on?!?! No-one complained when Ron Dennis was firmly in the Hamilton camp during the Alonso/Kovalainen years, or when Ron Dennis favoured Hakkinen and then Raikkonen over Coulthard, it's not unreasonable for a team principle to prefer one driver over another as long as everything is fair and square with equipment and opportunities, which I believe to be the case!

[Hammer278]

Is this still rumbling on?!?! No-one complained when Ron Dennis was firmly in the Hamilton camp during the Alonso/Kovalainen years, or when Ron Dennis favoured Hakkinen and then Raikkonen over Coulthard, it's not unreasonable for a team principle to prefer one driver over another as long as everything is fair and square with equipment and opportunities, which I believe to be the case!

I was complaining till the pigs came home. But in another forum.

[racechick]

I agree about the equipment. Ive no worries on that score. It's as its always been equal and fair.

Bud-Of course Whitmarsh should celebrate jensons victories(these are 2nd and 3rd places at Spa and Monza). Earlier in the year when asked about a Lewis win(sorry cant remember which race) Ive heard him say, lets look first at jenson,he did really well from a bad qualifying position. something like that.

On Dennis and Hamilton. That was a little different. Alonso was coming in as a twotime world champion. Hamilton was a rookie who they were uncertain whether to give the seat to. Stands to reason there he'd have more emotional support. And once Alonso tried blackmail well Alonso.

Hamilton and Button are equal on world championships though I think Lewis still needs more emotional support and guidance and yet Jenson is getting it.
Lewis should have kept with his dad. But then he got strife over that too didnt he. He seems a very isolated figure and thats not how to get the best from someone of lewis temperament.Mclaren will be the losers as well as lewis.

I like jenson and have no problem with him. I rthink he's a good friend and team mate to lewis. I hope Im wrong about Whitmarsh. I liked him at the beginning of the season but little things keep cropping up again and again and post race Monza was sickening.

[andrew]

Im glad people are finally seeing what ive suspected from australia 2010.

Whitmarsh is a Button fan.

It's no secret that Whitmarsh wanted Button at McLaren and pursued him. Ron Dennis did the same with Hamilton. I mentioned earlier that all team bosses have their favourites, just some are professional enough to try and hide it or not openly mention their favouritism.

So he can only be complimentary of Lewis and not Jenson.
End of the day whitmarsh is not hindering anyone in the team I don't see anything untoward as I follow the team foremost not Lewis or Jenson. And both set of fans are claiming the other is being favored. Go figure.

[myownalias]

This is Lewis' fifth year in F1; he shouldn't need all the attention and propping up at this point, he should be able to motivate himself, yes Lewis' has had some bad luck as well as making mistakes, but at this level he should be able to brush that off and look forward to the next race with a fresh perspective! F1 is not a sport for the weak-hearted; how many years of bad results and bad cars did Jenson have to work through before getting a break in the Brawn, it was touch and go whether Jenson's career was over in the off season after Honda ditched F1.

[Hammer278]

This is Lewis' fifth year in F1; he shouldn't need all the attention and propping up at this point, he should be able to motivate himself, yes Lewis' has had some bad luck as well as making mistakes, but at this level he should be able to brush that off and look forward to the next race with a fresh perspective! F1 is not a sport for the weak-hearted; how many years of bad results and bad cars did Jenson have to work through before getting a break in the Brawn, it was touch and go whether Jenson's career was over in the off season after Honda ditched F1.

Yeah...but the thing is until Jenson was awarded a spaceship by Honda, I don't think any team bosses out there actually believed he was WDC material.

In Lewis' case, he proved it in his rookie season, so the investment in a WDC driver is different...the argument here is Jenson is receiving that emotional support while Lewis (for some reason or another) isn't.

[racechick]

This is Lewis' fifth year in F1; he shouldn't need all the attention and propping up at this point, he should be able to motivate himself, yes Lewis' has had some bad luck as well as making mistakes, but at this level he should be able to brush that off and look forward to the next race with a fresh perspective! F1 is not a sport for the weak-hearted; how many years of bad results and bad cars did Jenson have to work through before getting a break in the Brawn, it was touch and go whether Jenson's career was over in the off season after Honda ditched F1.

Yeah...but the thing is until Jenson was awarded a spaceship by Honda, I don't think any team bosses out there actually believed he was WDC material.

In Lewis' case, he proved it in his rookie season, so the investment in a WDC driver is different...the argument here is Jenson is receiving that emotional support while Lewis (for some reason or another) isn't.

Said far more concisely than I managed.

[myownalias]

Yeah...but the thing is until Jenson was awarded a spaceship by Honda, I don't think any team bosses out there actually believed he was WDC material.

I would accept that Jenson probably stayed loyal to BAR/Honda for too long, he had other opportunities over the years, he resigned for Williams only to change his mind, buying himself out of his Williams contract to stay at Honda, which I believe to be a mistake as Williams were a half decent team at that point and could have showcased his talents more and maybe attract a big name drive. Lewis on the other hand jumped straight into a car capable of winning a title, he almost won in '07 and did win in '08. Maybe not attending the school of hard knocks in a lower field team having to scrap for 15th place means he isn't as emotionally tough as someone like Alonso for example, who won both his titles in a car that wasn't the fastest car out there!