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[scotty]

I just think you were both cleverly, ill give you that, misrepresenting, or falsifying (like lawyers do in court) certain facts etc to make your argument look stronger.

Here were go again, you making things personal!

Im certain you two know what your talking about, and have watched every race this year, as a result, youll know that everytime Jenson has finished a race hes had nothing go wrong to him that wasnt his fault, in about several races this year, that literally means about 7, over half, something has happened in the race, that wasnt Hamiltons fault (i dont mean Monza btw, if you have a poor start and poor SC restart then its self inflicted) that Mclaren has caused with strategy etc, that hasnt affected Button. This UNBELIEVABLY convenient but its the damn straight facts.

That is quite simply incorrect itself, no idea what you're on about stating this as fact. Button's bad luck: Turkey - poor strategy. Strategy cost him in Monaco. Valencia - lost KERS. Spa - lost out in quali through no fault of his own. That's just off the top of my head. Please do elaborate on all these times Hamilton has suffered though.

I actually urge you to recap the events on Wikipedia or something from Australia to Monza

Right back at ya, apparently.

[andrew]

Is Wikipedia the gospel of F1 facts now?

[scotty]

Is Wikipedia the gospel of F1 facts now?

For me, stats, yeah, but insight... no. The 'selected driver and team quotes' on the official F1 site are quite useful i reckon, amongst other things.

[myownalias]

Is Wikipedia the gospel of F1 facts now?

Duh! Obviously... It's a useful resource but it misses some vital facts about races!

/I do use Wikipedia as a resource for checking whether my memory serves me correct some times...

[andrew]

I use Wikipedia too but with caution. F1 stat's and track layouts/corner names are fine but anything other than that I rely on other sources too.

[acosmichippo]

Idunno, wikipedia says wikipedia is basically as accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica [citation needed].

[FRAFPDD]

We can argue who is better all year long, Lewis fans will say Lewis is better; Jenson fans will say Jenson is better, in reality they'll be near enough equal come the end of the season.

Both drivers have their strengths and weaknesses; both are capable of winning races and championships as proven, why do we constantly have to argue who is better? Can't we just appreciate that we have two top drivers at McLaren, there's no shame in Hamilton being beaten by Button or Button being beaten by Hamilton, two drivers of contrasting styles make the racing interesting!

Originally I voted for Lewis to beat Jenson but seeing Jenson become more confident over the season has made my opinion swing towards the man from Frome!

The entirety of my point is that this is nothing to do with whos the better driver.

The entirety of my point is that you ever so conveniently stress the two DNFs of Jenson, when completely failing to mention Hamiltons(bad strategies, plain bad luck) , this debate is about fairness not superiority.

Im happy to point out where Jensons lost points through no fault of his own.

[FRAFPDD]

I just think you were both cleverly, ill give you that, misrepresenting, or falsifying (like lawyers do in court) certain facts etc to make your argument look stronger.

Here were go again, you making things personal!

Im certain you two know what your talking about, and have watched every race this year, as a result, youll know that everytime Jenson has finished a race hes had nothing go wrong to him that wasnt his fault, in about several races this year, that literally means about 7, over half, something has happened in the race, that wasnt Hamiltons fault (i dont mean Monza btw, if you have a poor start and poor SC restart then its self inflicted) that Mclaren has caused with strategy etc, that hasnt affected Button. This UNBELIEVABLY convenient but its the damn straight facts.

That is quite simply incorrect itself, no idea what you're on about stating this as fact. Button's bad luck: Turkey - poor strategy. Strategy cost him in Monaco. Valencia - lost KERS. Spa - lost out in quali through no fault of his own. That's just off the top of my head. Please do elaborate on all these times Hamilton has suffered though.

I actually urge you to recap the events on Wikipedia or something from Australia to Monza

Right back at ya, apparently.

1. Myownalias has a clear enough head to have managed to see it both wasnt personal and didnt appear personal enough to question so, i werent being personal, your the only one that thinks so mate, perhaps dropping your bias against me since the days where i made the brutal mistake of mentioning how crap i think Kubica is in your presence would save us all some hassle?


2. Pffttt! Having a giggle aint ya? Im not wasting my hours recapping the events of the season in Hamiltons case for you to then dismiss them like youve just done, you can do that yourself.

Christ its not even like finding a needle in a haystick, Mclaren have royally sodomized him every other race since the start of the season. Often to the delight of the other driver.



2.

[myownalias]

We can argue who is better all year long, Lewis fans will say Lewis is better; Jenson fans will say Jenson is better, in reality they'll be near enough equal come the end of the season.

Both drivers have their strengths and weaknesses; both are capable of winning races and championships as proven, why do we constantly have to argue who is better? Can't we just appreciate that we have two top drivers at McLaren, there's no shame in Hamilton being beaten by Button or Button being beaten by Hamilton, two drivers of contrasting styles make the racing interesting!

Originally I voted for Lewis to beat Jenson but seeing Jenson become more confident over the season has made my opinion swing towards the man from Frome!

The entirety of my point is that this is nothing to do with whos the better driver.

The entirety of my point is that you ever so conveniently stress the two DNFs of Jenson, when completely failing to mention Hamiltons(bad strategies, plain bad luck) , this debate is about fairness not superiority.

Im happy to point out where Jensons lost points through no fault of his own.

Do you not read what I write? I have pointed out that both had two DNF's a piece and both have had their fair share of bad luck with strategy and whatnot, my point is that Lewis' retirements were of his own making, Jensons' were not... you make out that Lewis has had the lions share of the bad luck; which isn't the case as Scotty pointed out. You should take a look at your own posts and realise that you are doing exactly what you are accusing myself and Scotty of doing, yes, yes the whole world is against Lewis and because of that he has an inability to win titles...

Lewis isn't doing so well so clearly the team is shafting him, guess McLaren must have shafted Jenson when he only had three wheels on his wagon and ran out hydraulic juice!

[f1ea]

I dont remember a single driving mistake from Jenson in the past 2 yrs.

There was this one spin at Korea last yr but he even caught without leaving the track... and under those conditions i wouldnt even call that a signifficant mistake.

I do remember, however, at least 3 times when he got a DNF through ABSOLUTELY no doing of his won. That's much worse luck than getting hit with an arguable Drive thru or something, and still being allowed to drive for points.

None of that makes Jenson an absolute better driver, but you can't really say he's been more fortunate than anyone, or that anyone's been so much more simply unlucky than him.

[What's Burning?]

Can we then say Vettel has been fortunate? Or is all fortune made? Two or three mechanical DNFs like a lot of other drivers would certainly have changed the WDC landscape. So Kudos to RB for making their own fortune that must be the drinks company secret ingredient.

[darwin dali]

Me thinks everybody has stated their opinion and there's only a slim chance anybody would change theirs - thus, before it gets too heated in here:

EVERYBODY CHILLAX!!!

[bud]

No need to yell

[darwin dali]

No need to yell

Well, sometimes I have to make myself heard in this kindergarten

[myownalias]

No need to yell

Well, sometimes I have to make myself heard in this kindergarten

Especially with the rebel mods wading in...