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[andrew]

e) how ? he's a good lad!

Except when he is told to hold the gap.

Or he has his front wing switched

There was hee-haw difference between the wings. I laughed when I heard that after the race after Webber shooting his mouth off.

But there was also hee-haw difference between pole and second place! About the same hee-haw as the wing.

I think Red Bull reverted back to the original wing as there was hee-haw difference.

Incidently, for those of you who cannot speak Glaswegian (basically English with a Scottish accent and some gibberish thrown in - Rab C Nesbitt clips on You Tube gives you the general idea), hee-haw means no discernable difference.

[phonedog]

e) how ? he's a good lad!

Except when he is told to hold the gap.

But if you were an f1 driver and christian horner said "maintain the gap" wouldn't you be frustrated by that ? ...anybody would of been.

[andrew]

e) how ? he's a good lad!

Except when he is told to hold the gap.

But if you were an f1 driver and christian horner said "maintain the gap" wouldn't you be frustrated by that ? ...anybody would of been.

Yes but if you are the no. 2 it's your job. Difficult to swallow I dare say but it is a team sport after all.

[racechick]

e) how ? he's a good lad!

Except when he is told to hold the gap.

But if you were an f1 driver and christian horner said "maintain the gap" wouldn't you be frustrated by that ? ...anybody would of been.

Yes but if you are the no. 2 it's your job. Difficult to swallow I dare say but it is a team sport after all.

theres a drivers championship as well as a constructors. Id have ignored the message too. Id have gone "ssssppppppspppspspps wh...crackle , crackle...di....ca......hear you ssssssssppppspsppsps"and jiggled the talking button about a bit.

[andrew]

I think it would be quite difficult to jiggle your buttons and drive at 150mph at the same time.

It's easy to be outside looking in and saying what we would do in his position. For me, my heart would be saying race to the line but my head would be hearing the radio message. I honestly have no idea which instinct I would go with though. Probably my heart until someone was shouting very loudly in my ear.

Webber hasn't got a realistic shot at the drivers championship anymore. Vettel is so far ahead he can just be Mr Consistency for the rest of the seson and doesn't have to win every race. For Webber to win the drivers championship this year, Vettel would have to either have an unprecedented run of bad luck or be out for a few races.

Realistically all Webber can do now is aim for 2nd and help secure Red Bull another constructors championship.

[vaptin]

e) how ? he's a good lad!

Except when he is told to hold the gap.

But if you were an f1 driver and christian horner said "maintain the gap" wouldn't you be frustrated by that ? ...anybody would of been.

Yes but if you are the no. 2 it's your job. Difficult to swallow I dare say but it is a team sport after all.

Yeah, but Redbull claim they don't operate like that.

That's what annoys me most of all, the damn hypocrisy, against their sporting principles apparently, no it turns out that they just want to win. Like every other team, and pay drivers a huge amount of money to try and do so, which means they'll expect their drivers to do what they're told.

[GRHinPorts]

I think it would be quite difficult to jiggle your buttons and drive at 150mph at the same time.

It's easy to be outside looking in and saying what we would do in his position. For me, my heart would be saying race to the line but my head would be hearing the radio message. I honestly have no idea which instinct I would go with though. Probably my heart until someone was shouting very loudly in my ear.

Webber hasn't got a realistic shot at the drivers championship anymore. Vettel is so far ahead he can just be Mr Consistency for the rest of the seson and doesn't have to win every race. For Webber to win the drivers championship this year, Vettel would have to either have an unprecedented run of bad luck or be out for a few races.

Realistically all Webber can do now is aim for 2nd and help secure Red Bull another constructors championship.

See I have a slight problem with that because as things currently stand Webber is Vettels nearest challenge in the WDC and so the 3 points they were fighting over is actually worth 6 in their head to head positioning. Getting Mark to defer to Seb sends out a bad message that the championship is being manipulated by Red Bull for the German's convenience. And it says to Mark Webber that he's not being given a fair deal.

However, having said all that I think it was an extremely tough call for Red Bull because in this Silverstone race Seb clearly won the start from Mark, then drove off in to the distance away from his teammate on the inters, and only lost the lead because of his pit crews mistake. Even with this Mark could not get ahead of him. Seb was then held up behind Lewis and had to pit early to make sure he could reclaim the 2nd place. All of this meant that Fernando could not be beaten so even before you calculate problems with KERS, and worn tyres (brought on by the early stop to leapfrog Lewis) it makes total sense to ease off, settle for 2nd and bring the car home.

So I also have a slight problem with Webber being allowed a free run at his teammate when in reality he has been outclassed by him.

As I say and extremely tough call for Red Bull, one thats easy to criticise, but on balance I feel was the correct one. However this is not to say that its not without its own consequences.

[andrew]

Yes but if you are the no. 2 it's your job. Difficult to swallow I dare say but it is a team sport after all.

Yeah, but Redbull claim they don't operate like that.

That's what annoys me most of all, the damn hypocrisy, against their sporting principles apparently, no it turns out that they just want to win. Like every other team, and pay drivers a huge amount of money to try and do so, which means they'll expect their drivers to do what they're told.[/quote]

All team bosses say the same thing - that they are against team orders yet all teams use team orders and have done since year dot. Some are more vocal than others which makes their hypocrisy easier to spot. Red Bull seem to air their dirty washing in public - a bit like when you see a couple having a barney in the middle of the street. Ferrari and McLaren seem to keep things indoors where it should be.

[vaptin]

Yes but if you are the no. 2 it's your job. Difficult to swallow I dare say but it is a team sport after all.

Yeah, but Redbull claim they don't operate like that.

That's what annoys me most of all, the damn hypocrisy, against their sporting principles apparently, no it turns out that they just want to win. Like every other team, and pay drivers a huge amount of money to try and do so, which means they'll expect their drivers to do what they're told.

All team bosses say the same thing - that they are against team orders yet all teams use team orders and have done since year dot. Some are more vocal than others which makes their hypocrisy easier to spot. Red Bull seem to air their dirty washing in public - a bit like when you see a couple having a barney in the middle of the street. Ferrari and McLaren seem to keep things indoors where it should be.[/quote]

Some team bosses openly admit to team orders, of course now the rule is legalised they can again.

It was Ferrari last year who insisted it was a team sport, "team tactics", and that when the car wins the team wins.

Whilst pretty much every team imposes team orders, some are honest about it.

Redbull kicked up a fuss last year, insisting they believed in letting their drivers race, and were prepared to accept the consequences of that, whilst the likes of McLaren and Ross Brawn were happy to admit team orders have always been used in f1.

[hastykiwi]

Mark won't create a fuss because he's a Journeyman in a fast car. He'll suck it up, go for a last year, cause thats all Red Bull will offer him and take the money.

Cheers
H.

[bud]

Incidently, for those of you who cannot speak Glaswegian (basically English with a Scottish accent and some gibberish thrown in - Rab C Nesbitt clips on You Tube gives you the general idea), hee-haw means no discernable difference.

I'm good at giving the Glaswegian kiss