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[vaptin]

2. Go look at Abu Dhabi '10 to see an example of Ferrari fans not questioning the strategy until the race is over and he loses the championship, why do i bring this example up, cause your ridiculous presumption that " only when things go sour do some of his (Hamiltons) fans suddenly challenge strategy" to suggest that Hamilton fans are some sort of extreme case is laughable, and tiring, this anti-hamilton-ness is quite literally a Wet Pirelli tyre on its 52nd lap of sunny silverstone, no substance left at all.

[not actually focusing on the discussion],

Believe me, I remember being terrified at that decision, no idea why they brought Alonso in, I was expecting the graining phase of the tyres to pass. And had no expectation of Alonso making those passes to get track position back.

It really was a terrible decision that one, Ted Kravitz reported other teams thought Alonso pitted because he had a problem, they were thinking wtf did they make that call for.

[Ri21]

Wow its amazing that you can read 1 sentance of someones comment and know who they favour in F1 without them actually saying it...anywhooo

I hope that when it comes to Germany that Mclaren will be on there A-game....and hopefully it will be a fun and interesting race (and i wont have to come back to this post again)

Hm, from that one sentence there I take it you're a Ferrari fan?

Was it the sentance or the fact that my picture is of Lewis and Jenson that gave it away?!?!

[Hammer278]

HAHA!

[GRHinPorts]

I do often feel that since the committed involvement from Mercedes began in 1995 the McLaren team have rather underperformed given some of the cars they have produced in that time. Only 3 Drivers Championships (all squeaked out in the very last race of the season) and 1 Constructors Championship. And 3 seasons in 2000, 2005 and 2007 where they have had great chances only to throw it away with their own mistakes.

Over the years they have seemed to hamper their own efforts by insisting on having 2 drivers competing on an equal footing, often appearing to select the wrong race strategy whilst trying to be clever, and/or perhaps being more prone to technical mechanical issues that can effect any team but seem to strike McLaren at the wrong time more than others.

[racechick]

Its interesting that you point out McLarens' allowing their drivers to race on an equal footing, there are still some who find that fact particularly difficult to accept. Your right, it makes it harder for them to win...but all the more satisfying when they do.

[andrew]

Its interesting that you point out McLarens' allowing their drivers to race on an equal footing, there are still some who find that fact particularly difficult to accept. Your right, it makes it harder for them to win...but all the more satisfying when they do.

To be honest it isn't hard to accept as I don't believe this to be anymore of a "fact" in McLaren than it is in Red Bull or Ferrari. Just some teams are more obvious in their dealings than others.

[racechick]

Its interesting that you point out McLarens' allowing their drivers to race on an equal footing, there are still some who find that fact particularly difficult to accept. Your right, it makes it harder for them to win...but all the more satisfying when they do.

To be honest it isn't hard to accept as I don't believe this to be anymore of a "fact" in McLaren than it is in Red Bull or Ferrari. Just some teams are more obvious in their dealings than others.

You cant back track now You've just stated how it hinders their title challenge! Ferrari and Red Bull clearly dont let their drivers race.

[GRHinPorts]

Its interesting that you point out McLarens' allowing their drivers to race on an equal footing, there are still some who find that fact particularly difficult to accept. Your right, it makes it harder for them to win...but all the more satisfying when they do.

Oh having 2 drivers on a completely equal footing definitely makes it harder for the team to win I believe.

However having a completely docile No.2 who "knows his place" is also not without its problems since the No.2 can easily become demotivated and not push absolutely as he might. Moreover the No.1 might well become complacent and coast along rather than maximising the speed of the car. All of this can feed back to the team not pushing the development of their car enough which ultimately will see them being caught and overtaken by competitors.

So its a fine balance between having two driver racing each other with complete equality, and having a clear No.1 and No.2 pecking order. This is a fine balance Red Bull are currently teetering on after their call with Webber at the end of the British Grand Prix.

[andrew]

Its interesting that you point out McLarens' allowing their drivers to race on an equal footing, there are still some who find that fact particularly difficult to accept. Your right, it makes it harder for them to win...but all the more satisfying when they do.

To be honest it isn't hard to accept as I don't believe this to be anymore of a "fact" in McLaren than it is in Red Bull or Ferrari. Just some teams are more obvious in their dealings than others.

You cant back track now You've just stated how it hinders their title challenge! Ferrari and Red Bull clearly dont let their drivers race.

I'm not backtracking about anything. I don't believe that any of the top teams let their drivers race. No matter what the like of Whitmarsh claim, none of these team bosses could lie straight in bed at night.

[FRAFPDD]

Its interesting that you point out McLarens' allowing their drivers to race on an equal footing, there are still some who find that fact particularly difficult to accept. Your right, it makes it harder for them to win...but all the more satisfying when they do.

To be honest it isn't hard to accept as I don't believe this to be anymore of a "fact" in McLaren than it is in Red Bull or Ferrari. Just some teams are more obvious in their dealings than others.

You cant back track now You've just stated how it hinders their title challenge! Ferrari and Red Bull clearly dont let their drivers race.

I'm not backtracking about anything. I don't believe that any of the top teams let their drivers race. No matter what the like of Whitmarsh claim, none of these team bosses could lie straight in bed at night.

So you watch Jenson finish 1st and Lewis 2nd,

You see Hamilton and Jenson smash into each other in Canada

You see Lewis finish 1st and Jenson 2nd

You see them touch wheels into the first corner of Turkey in 2010

You see them do it again in Turkey 2011

You see Hamilton overtake Jenson in Australia 2010

You see him do it before he ran wide to Jenson in Canada 2010.



Where in gods name is the substance for your argument? Me thinks someones trying to shift focus from the fact Vettel needs a mediocre driver as a designated number two to win hurts just a bit.

[andrew]

Where in gods name is the substance for your argument? Me thinks someones trying to shift focus from the fact Vettel needs a mediocre driver as a designated number two to win hurts just a bit.

I don't need substance for an argument. I just don't believe it for a minute. It make no sense at all in a team that can challenge for both championships to not use team orders.

[FRAFPDD]

Where in gods name is the substance for your argument? Me thinks someones trying to shift focus from the fact Vettel needs a mediocre driver as a designated number two to win hurts just a bit.

I don't need substance for an argument. I just don't believe it for a minute. It make no sense at all in a team that can challenge for both championships to not use team orders.

" I dont need substance for an argument"

Says everything ill ever need to know. Cheers.

[andrew]

Where in gods name is the substance for your argument? Me thinks someones trying to shift focus from the fact Vettel needs a mediocre driver as a designated number two to win hurts just a bit.

I don't need substance for an argument. I just don't believe it for a minute. It make no sense at all in a team that can challenge for both championships to not use team orders.

" I dont need substance for an argument"

Says everything ill ever need to know. Cheers.

Common sense dictates that you have a pecking order in a team. There's substance for you!

Incidently, calling any F1 driver mediocre tells me all I'll ever need to know.

[FRAFPDD]

Where in gods name is the substance for your argument? Me thinks someones trying to shift focus from the fact Vettel needs a mediocre driver as a designated number two to win hurts just a bit.

I don't need substance for an argument. I just don't believe it for a minute. It make no sense at all in a team that can challenge for both championships to not use team orders.

" I dont need substance for an argument"

Says everything ill ever need to know. Cheers.

Common sense dictates that you have a pecking order in a team. There's substance for you!

Incidently, calling any F1 driver mediocre tells me all I'll ever need to know.

*Sigh* In relative terms, Webber is a mediocre driver.

ARE YOU STILL FOLLOWING ANDREW?

Actually i think you know full well what i mean, youd just like for me to class Webber as the next schumacher to make Vettel look better?

Gotta have some faith in your drivers ability man, s'not cool.

[bud]

Webber is far from mediocre