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[What's Burning?]

So the official rule is blow, but don't blow-hard off throttle.

I don't remember Red Bull fighting this hard when everyone was complaining about heir flexing front wings. The fact that they're pushing back so hard on this issue screams that it's got a big chunk to do with the car's dominance.

[vaptin]

Horner said governing body the FIA had been "right, fair and equitable".

No ones ever genuinely that nice about the FIA, this pretty much says it all. This is benefiting redbull.

Stupid rules about trying to balance the engines, they've got different engines ffs, either let them work differently or don't, not allow one team to do something the others can't. And if its illegal, why the hell is there a middle ground?

Renault and Red Bull had objected to a decision by the FIA to allow Mercedes to introduce fuel on the over-run - when the engine is being used for braking.

Although the engine is reduced to running on only four of its eight cylinders at this point, this will inevitably lead to some blowing of the diffuser, and therefore the creation of some downforce.

Renault, by contrast, does not fuel its engine on the over-run and argued that it should be allowed to compensate by opening the throttles to a specific amount, something it says it has always done to ensure reliability.

The FIA has accepted Renault's argument and the French company will now be allowed to run its engines on 50% throttle when the driver is not pressing the accelerator.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula ... 076892.stm

Looks like Renault want an advantage here, want to blow off throttle because they aren't introducing fuel, but as Mercedes's are, they can't use it?

If they'd be a performance advantage for Mercedes after an illegal action is banned, again, tough?

Not sure where Ferrari fit in all of this (do they have no idea so are just keeping quiet?), again its a sign of Stefano's management style, but I can't see Todt (as team boss of Ferrari) not fighting Ferrari's corner in this.

I'd normally trust what Brawn says on the issue, he seems to be the most honest.

[Denthúl]

I'm not really sure how the FIA can maintain credibility after this farce. That being, the initially change-of-mind regarding the date it would happen, and now evening the playing field, only to..undo it?

[F1er]

Well after this Vettel fans have NOTHING to brag about,NOTHING.

It's clear that Red Bull are the Ferrari of the 2000s and have the FIA in their pocket. I will probably won't watch the rest of the season since F1 has become WWE and I'm tired of all the politics.

[LewEngBridewell]

I will probably won't watch the rest of the season

Ohh, but you know you will.

[F1er]

I will probably won't watch the rest of the season

Ohh, but you know you will.

I will go online to see the results and news,if it's worth it I will,with a lot of fast forwarding. I'ts not the same.

[vaptin]

This is an (as usual) excellent article from Andrew Benson (the dude who asked the question that started the argument):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson ... s_lat.html

Quite simply, the FIA have been lenient, engine manufactures have claimed they have to have some (off throttle) blowing (hot in the case of Mercedes, cold in the case of Renault) for reliability purposes, so blowing gases hasn't gone away.

Renault have argued (Benson also states this as fact) that their cold blowing system, is worth less that the hot blowing system, so for it to be fair, Renault should be allowed a greater percentage of throttle opening (when under braking) compared to the amount allowed for Mercedes in order to equalise the claimed advantage to Mercedes.

Whitmarsh is insisting this is unfair, that the 50% of off throttle that Renault can use for blowing is too much (and just plain against the new interpretation of the rules), and gives them an advantage. He says because of the constraints on hot blowing (firing) the benefits of that are greatly limited. Horner disagrees, and argues that the benefits of firing are significantly more than the system for Renault unless the Renault has the 50% allocation.

I think the FIA's position is clear, the engines should be essentially equal, so what it depends on is if they have got a level playing field by allowing the cold blowing Renault the 50% off throttle overun. That's the principle they're trying to uphold, this isn't about having rules that are the same for everyone, its about making sure the effect of the rules is the same for everyone.

In the short term, thats what they need to rule on, in the long term, we should discuss the principle of having equalised engines.

[myownalias]

I think the FIA's position is clear, the engines should be essentially equal, so what it depends on is if they have got a level playing field by allowing the cold blowing Renault the 50% off throttle overun. That's the principle they're trying to uphold, this isn't about having rules that are the same for everyone, its about making sure the effect of the rules is the same for everyone.

Why should all engines be equal? F1 isn't supposed to be a spec series; just remove the freeze on engine development and let the engine makers battle it out to create the best engine without the moveable aero device that is hot/cold blowing exhaust gasses. Frankly the FIA has made a massive hash of pretty much everything since Jean Todt came to power! The governing body has become a complete joke, backtracking consistently; what next; V8 engines to stay and the V6 turbo formula dropped? How can anyone respect a body that doesn't have the courage of their convictions?

[acosmichippo]

i've got a solution:



next?

[myownalias]

i've got a solution:



next?

That wouldn't work; the teams would argue that baked had an advantage over roasted, boiled or mashed and demand that potato size was reduced to negate the advantage!

[vaptin]

I think the FIA's position is clear, the engines should be essentially equal, so what it depends on is if they have got a level playing field by allowing the cold blowing Renault the 50% off throttle overun. That's the principle they're trying to uphold, this isn't about having rules that are the same for everyone, its about making sure the effect of the rules is the same for everyone.

Why should all engines be equal? F1 isn't supposed to be a spec series; just remove the freeze on engine development and let the engine makers battle it out to create the best engine without the moveable aero device that is hot/cold blowing exhaust gasses. Frankly the FIA has made a massive hash of pretty much everything since Jean Todt came to power! The governing body has become a complete joke, backtracking consistently; what next; V8 engines to stay and the V6 turbo formula dropped? How can anyone respect a body that doesn't have the courage of their convictions?

Hey, its their position not mine,

But I hate hypocrisy probably above any other principle, I expect the FIA to insist on sticking to that for the present time, the end of the season provides reasonable time to reassess how much control the FIA will impose on car development.

[Denthúl]

i've got a solution:



next?

That wouldn't work; the teams would argue that baked had an advantage over roasted, boiled or mashed and demand that potato size was reduced to negate the advantage!

I dunno. Most roast potatoes I've seen have some straight edges on. Surely there are aerodynamic gains there? Not to mention their smaller size (on average) means the chassis weighs less overall, allowing for better placement of ballast...

[myownalias]

Hey, its their position not mine.

Sorry, should have made it more clear; I wasn't getting at you; I was getting at the absurdity of the FIA; EBD should have been banned before the start of this season or before the start of next!

[smokin]

i've got a solution:



next?

That wouldn't work; the teams would argue that baked had an advantage over roasted, boiled or mashed and demand that potato size was reduced to negate the advantage!

I dunno. Most roast potatoes I've seen have some straight edges on. Surely there are aerodynamic gains there? Not to mention their smaller size (on average) means the chassis weighs less overall, allowing for better placement of ballast...

Just stick it in the exhaust. That'll solve the problem

[acosmichippo]

Hey, its their position not mine.

Sorry, should have made it more clear; I wasn't getting at you; I was getting at the absurdity of the FIA; EBD should have been banned before the start of this season or before the start of next!

they did ban it before the start of next season.