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[darwin dali]

So with AN telling the world that he's splitting his time between upgrades of the RB7 and designing next year's car, I started to wonder what McLaren is doing. Surely, they are already working on their new contender while taking in the lessons learned from this half season.
What I'm curious about is: will they retain their somewhat unique side pod design (see below)?


Or will they go back to a more streamlined Red Bullesque shape?
Thoughts?

[bigpat]

All depends what the wind tunnel numbers say.

The sidepod shape is just a part of a broader aero philosophy that the team applied to the car. Things like that have to be frozen quite early on in the deign process, as it has an impact on on the layout of other systems of the car.

So once you've taken the plunge, you have to stick to your guns, so to speak. No doubt they would have revisited its validity in preliminary aero & CFD work for the 2012 car. McLaren would have to assess whether the concept helped achieve their goals for the car, and whether any structural, weight penalties etc related to that concept were worth it.

Low sidepods are desirable from a centre of gravity standpoint. Higher sided pods create a bigger area for a lateral crash structure, and allows more bodyworkfor scope to beneficially deflect airflow around the sides of the car. The sunken section of the McLarens pods obviously help feed cleaner air to the lower beam of the rear wing.

[darwin dali]

All depends what the wind tunnel numbers say.

The sidepod shape is just a part of a broader aero philosophy that the team applied to the car. Things like that have to be frozen quite early on in the deign process, as it has an impact on on the layout of other systems of the car.

So once you've taken the plunge, you have to stick to your guns, so to speak. No doubt they would have revisited its validity in preliminary aero & CFD work for the 2012 car. McLaren would have to assess whether the concept helped achieve their goals for the car, and whether any structural, weight penalties etc related to that concept were worth it.

Low sidepods are desirable from a centre of gravity standpoint. Higher sided pods create a bigger area for a lateral crash structure, and allows more bodyworkfor scope to beneficially deflect airflow around the sides of the car. The sunken section of the McLarens pods obviously help feed cleaner air to the lower beam of the rear wing.

Care to hazard a prediction re. sidepods for 2012?

[bud]

Got to take into account the new exhaust regulations next season, this might hinder the side pods purpose of channeling air to the rear.

[spankyham]

Got to take into account the new exhaust regulations next season, this might hinder the side pods purpose of channeling air to the rear.

Spot on! No EBD's will make the rear wing and the rest of the car more important in terms of providing downforce.

[LewEngBridewell]

What we must also remember is that, while Red Bull and Ferrari merely fine-tuned their previous year's challenger for 2011, McLaren started all over again. Initially, it backfired, and much of the pre-season was spent trying to get a flawed car to work right.

Instead of repeating that, I think fine-tuning and upgrading an already fast 2011 McLaren will probably be the best way forward, rather than having a repeat of this year's close season.

[bigpat]

I don't believe that 2011 concept was floored. Rather McLaren backed themselves into a corner truly to get the 'octopus exhaust' to work. They removed if for Melbourne, and the car instantly went quicker....

Banning of EBD will make clean air along the rear deck to feed the lower beam wing more critical. Most teams have tightly packaged rear ends, but Mclaren smartly thought better to lower the bodywork ahead of it. That way the rear see more 'freestream 'air, that hasn't lost as much energy. Also the high fronted pods, with low rears typically cause lift over their surface. The sunken section helps negate this.

It would seem logical for McLaren to continue, and refine the concept. I don't know if anyone will necessarily follow, as each car will be designed with a different philosophy, and a different aero map for the entire car. A cars concept has to be part of an overall plan. Pulling bits and pieces from other concepts and trying to get it all to work happily isn't a smart plan, as inevitably, the car requires wholesale changes, such as fuel cell shape, lateral crash structures etc. I would also expect diffusers to be generally less aggressive in design, as their will be less mass flow through them. I would expect some re optimized diffusers to appear late this season too.

I would elect to see a change in wheelbase and weight sistribution next year, particularly among those who chew the rear tyres too quickly. As seen this year, those hard on the rubber are having a very hard time overcoming it, as you can't alter wishbone angles etc. to change weight distribution. This year it's down to suspension geomety, setup, and aero. You can expect Sind serious weight shifted forwards next year ....

[Jabberwocky]

From what I understand is that the bigger teams never really change there focus. I asked the lady last year when i went on the Mercedes Factory tour. She said that they had a number of design teams that at the start of they year are working towards a set upgrade point/circuit. As there upgrade happens they will then turn there focus onto next years car.

e.g. right now I would imagine that the Silverstone design team have submitted there design and the parts are being made, so they will now be looking at next years car. Which they will do until the end of they year and then they will be told at what upgrade race they will be on next year.

IIRC She also said that in 2009 the Brawn BGP1 changed on average every 25 minutes. (I am not on about big upgrades just little things like designing/making the hydralic manifold 2 grams lighter, sort of detail change)

[vaptin]

From what I understand is that the bigger teams never really change there focus. I asked the lady last year when i went on the Mercedes Factory tour. She said that they had a number of design teams that at the start of they year are working towards a set upgrade point/circuit. As there upgrade happens they will then turn there focus onto next years car.

e.g. right now I would imagine that the Silverstone design team have submitted there design and the parts are being made, so they will now be looking at next years car. Which they will do until the end of they year and then they will be told at what upgrade race they will be on next year.

IIRC She also said that in 2009 the Brawn BGP1 changed on average every 25 minutes. (I am not on about big upgrades just little things like designing/making the hydralic manifold 2 grams lighter, sort of detail change)

Cool, thats really interesting. I knew these teams were of course extremely professional and hardworking, but having separate designing for every track, that's insane. Do you know if that setup is typical of all of the bigger budget teams?

Surely they must have a core overriding team, that does the fundamental car design though, and the other track specific teams just adapt that?

[Jabberwocky]

I don't know if all team are the same but as it was Brawn, and he is a sucessful chap in this sort of thing I would imagine that it is best practice.

Don't some teams have future development designers? Would they be the ones that come up with the philosophy of a car. However if not I would imagine that the 2012 car then the 2011 Barhain design team would be somewhere up there.

[Ri21]

I have never been one for the technical side (gobbledeegook) of F1 but when you guys start talking about it...it become interesting

[bigpat]

Managing so many separate design teams would be an absolute nightmare! With so many different ideas/ concepts etc. I really think there would only be 2-3 "teams" as such, one each for high, medium, and low downforce tracks. Perhaps this explains Mercedes inconsistent pace throughout the season.

I'm a big fan of the Renault system. They have 2 teams, one on the current car, from start to end, and another team for the next years car. This way each team is intimately familiar with the quirks of the car, and see its development through the whole season. I would think the wind tunnel team is constant, and this would help as a conduit of information between both design teams. No doubt the 2 teams regularly converse, and the overall direction of all car development is overseen. I think you will see this system slowly adopted in years to come.

Teams splitting their focus between the current and next car is a hard thing to do. Back in the day, teams only made 2 significant upgrades a season, now 4-5.
Ferrari in their prime, and Red Bull last year had a fantastically quick package that fighting until the last race of the season didn't hinder them the following season. Brawn paid the price in 2010 for stretching themselves to the last race of '09.

[Jabberwocky]

Managing so many separate design teams would be an absolute nightmare! With so many different ideas/ concepts etc. I really think there would only be 2-3 "teams" as such, one each for high, medium, and low downforce tracks. Perhaps this explains Mercedes inconsistent pace throughout the season.

I'm a big fan of the Renault system. They have 2 teams, one on the current car, from start to end, and another team for the next years car. This way each team is intimately familiar with the quirks of the car, and see its development through the whole season. I would think the wind tunnel team is constant, and this would help as a conduit of information between both design teams. No doubt the 2 teams regularly converse, and the overall direction of all car development is overseen. I think you will see this system slowly adopted in years to come.

Teams splitting their focus between the current and next car is a hard thing to do. Back in the day, teams only made 2 significant upgrades a season, now 4-5.
Ferrari in their prime, and Red Bull last year had a fantastically quick package that fighting until the last race of the season didn't hinder them the following season. Brawn paid the price in 2010 for stretching themselves to the last race of '09.

Do teams bring an aero update to every race?

[bigpat]

Not necessarily. Little things like revised wing flaps, little winglets, endplates etc, yes, as these are quick to make and easy to fit. Things like a new front or rear wing mainplane, floor, diffuser or bodywork are generally part of an upgrade 'package'. This sort of stuff requires a lot more verification before it finds its way on the car.

Even with our F3000 cars, we brought little aero tweaks to about half of our races. Bigger things we would try during a test day though....