FORUMula1.com

[bud]

You're pretty quick to condemn RedBull on their wing then over run Spanky but seem to not care if its Ferrari breaking the rules hey

[andrew]

I think it's time for me me to light up a Marlboro (and I don't even smoke), pour myself a huge Scotch (Johnny Walker of course) and place a call to Colonel Gadafi to try and get him to buy some shares in an F1 team.

Don't forget to call GE first.

[Blinky McSquinty]

Although it's being debated in here on the merits of smoking, the FIA does have regulations in place to enforce advertising and tobacco.

The problem is threefold. First, the races are conducted in different nations, each with their own unique anti-tobacco legislation. Second, if the wording in the regulation allows it, someone may attempt to exploit those loopholes. Third, the tobacco industry is a big player in the money game. We're talking huge amounts of money, in the billions. So although 200 million is nothing to sneeze at, for a major tobacco company, it's almost like pocket change, and it won't hurt them if the money doesn't give a return.

When Williams were running their Rothman's logo for Hill and Villeneuve, there was already a movement to remove tobacco from Formula One. Sir Frank followed the spirit of the rules, and migrated away from tobacco sponsorship even before it became mandatory. Others, such as Ferrari conduct their business differently, and thus we witness them challenging this anti-tobacco law at every opportunity. If their laywers tell them that they can run a certain logo, that's what happens. Ferrari do not follow the spirit of the rules, and in fact they push the boundaries of the letter of the law.

It's not passing judgement on anyone, it's being aware how different organizations choose to conduct their business.

When you make as much money as either of these two individuals, then you can call them stupid.

[vaptin]

Making money doesn't equate to absolute intelligence.

[acosmichippo]

yeah, what a silly end to an otherwise somewhat logical post.

[spankyham]

You're pretty quick to condemn RedBull on their wing then over run Spanky but seem to not care if its Ferrari breaking the rules hey

For sure Bud, I am against the overrun, mostly because the officials (FiA/Stewards) are on the record as saying it is a breach of the current rules. If the EU or the FiA came out and said the Ferrari Marlboro deal was against either FiA or EU regulations, then I'd take the same view. The fact is no-one from the FiA or EU have done done that - only you

I will go on record as saying I really don't like smoking but its legal so I accept it as long as it doesn't effect me. Same as I don't like obnoxious or aggressive drunks.

[bud]

But the FI A says the RedBull wing is legal but you're against that? whether the FIA are doing anything about this doesn't mean rules aren't being broken.
I'm far from being the only one against the Marlboro sponsorship. Maybe on here though

[spankyham]

But the FI A says the RedBull wing is legal but you're against that? whether the FIA are doing anything about this doesn't mean rules aren't being broken.
I'm far from being the only one against the Marlboro sponsorship. Maybe on here though

I see the front the wing as different to overrun. I was arguing the case that I thought it breached the rules, but my opinion doesn't decide anything, and, I accepted that the FiA has accepted the RB front wing as being legal.

The overrun is completely different, the FiA has said it breaches the current rules. I'm against Red Bull being allowed to continue breaching the rules until Silverstone.

[grant977]

I love how Ferrari stands thier ground. They are the only ones not folding to the BS.

[bud]

I love how Ferrari stands thier ground. They are the only ones not folding to the BS.

Standing ground? Are you suggesting this is about some form of smoking sponsorship moral right?
$$$ is all Ferrari care about!

[andrew]

$$$ is all Ferrari care about!

Well it is a business.

Morals don't matter where any business is concerned.

[bud]

$$$ is all Ferrari care about!

Well it is a business.

Morals don't matter where any business is concerned.

you again... For your own sake, You should try understand what you're talking about before you post! Where have I claimed morals here? It's about tobacco sponsorship in an age when it is meant to be out lawed is what the beef is here!
Other teams adhered to the rules but Ferrari think they can do what they like, always have always will. When nothing goes their way they bring up a breakaway.

[andrew]

$$$ is all Ferrari care about!

Well it is a business.

Morals don't matter where any business is concerned.

you again... For your own sake, You should try understand what you're talking about before you post! Where have I claimed morals here? It's about tobacco sponsorship in an age when it is meant to be out lawed is what the beef is here!
Other teams adhered to the rules but Ferrari think they can do what they like, always have always will. When nothing goes their way they bring up a breakaway.

I have to ask - are you God? An all knowing being? Or are you just a smart arse?

I'll point out you know nothing about me at all so you have no right to tell me or anyone else what they do or do not know or understand. Is that clear?

You mention morals above the sentence that I have quoted. See, here it is, I've put it in bold letters so you cannot miss it.

Standing ground? Are you suggesting this is about some form of smoking sponsorship moral right?
$$$ is all Ferrari care about!

Read this.

It states, and I quote:

However, there is now a blanket ban on advertising in Europe, and the cars are not allowed to show any links with the tobacco companies and tobacco advertising started to exit.

Sponsorship, or receiving funding from tobacco, is perfectly legal. Advertising is not. Ferrari do not advertise Marlboro on their cars, no matter how much you squint at their team logo. The only people who will make a link between Ferrari and Marlboro are those who can remember the old days and/or read up on F1. Most casual viewers who dip in and out of F1 and new viewers will be none the wiser.

[What's Burning?]

You guys are all talking out you @ss... it's Ferrari that's sponsoring Marlboro that's why the cigarette packs look suspiciously like the Scuderia Ferrari logo.

[bud]

I have to ask - are you God? An all knowing being? Or are you just a smart arse?

I'll point out you know nothing about me at all so you have no right to tell me or anyone else what they do or do not know or understand. Is that clear?

I'll point out you know nothing about me at all, I just may be god! And I will tell someone they do not understand what they are talking about when they clearly misquote, misunderstand and plainly too dimwitted to comprehend anything mentioned!
Maybe you would prefer if I spoke in Scots? Or Gaelic? Maybe you'll understand better perhaps? I dont know you, why dont you tell me all about yourself please

You mention morals above the sentence that I have quoted. See, here it is, I've put it in bold letters so you cannot miss it.

Standing ground? Are you suggesting this is about some form of smoking sponsorship moral right?
$$$ is all Ferrari care about!

yes you dunderheed read in bold, ARE YOU SUGGESTING. As in the user i was responding to is suggesting the moral high ground! far out

Read this.

It states, and I quote:

However, there is now a blanket ban on advertising in Europe, and the cars are not allowed to show any links with the tobacco companies and tobacco advertising started to exit.

Sponsorship, or receiving funding from tobacco, is perfectly legal. Advertising is not. Ferrari do not advertise Marlboro on their cars, no matter how much you squint at their team logo. The only people who will make a link between Ferrari and Marlboro are those who can remember the old days and/or read up on F1. Most casual viewers who dip in and out of F1 and new viewers will be none the wiser.

Ok so because "and you can quote" you all the sudden are an expert in marketing and subsequent differences or lack thereof between sponsorship and advertising? As previously pointed out over and over again Marlboro are the title sponsor, they have a nice little subliminal logo for Ferrari and themselves Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro.
To be quiet clear I am sick of repeating myself to you, I dont even know why I am bothering, You know nothing on marketing. By all means if you happen to work in the industry then by all means you can have your opinion but I hate when someone who is not trained or works in a field coming along telling me who is trained, learned and has a knowledge on the subject come along and try and argue with pittiful uneducated wiki quoted nonsense.
Who do you think you are? God? You smart arse you!