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[bud]

Im not sure but really even so thats not what the topic is about, the point is tobacco advertising and sponsorship is banned in 2011 in the EU and Ferrari are blatantly profiting from it which is unfair to other teams who had to ditch their big tobacco sponsors.

[spankyham]

Im not sure but really even so thats not what the topic is about, the point is tobacco advertising and sponsorship is banned in 2011 in the EU and Ferrari are blatantly profiting from it which is unfair to other teams who had to ditch their big tobacco sponsors.

Perhaps they are taking the view that as they haven't failed any test then it's legal

[andrew]

Not sure if this is mentioned already (apologies if it has been) but no rules are being broken here at all.

Ferrari receive cash from Phillip Morris. In return Phillip Morris own the advertising space on the Ferrari F1 cars and control who sponsors the team.

Further to this Phillip Morris use Ferrari in advertising campaigns. In effect, Ferrari sponsor Phillip Morris, not Phillip Morris sponsor Ferrari. Nothing against this in the rules at all.

Im not sure but really even so thats not what the topic is about, the point is tobacco advertising and sponsorship is banned in 2011 in the EU and Ferrari are blatantly profiting from it which is unfair to other teams who had to ditch their big tobacco sponsors.

They may be profiting but no rules are being broken unless you a re a bone-fide conspiracy theorist. It is only unfair in that the EBD was unfair because certain teams didn't think of it first. This is really quite a clever way to get round the tobacco advetising ban.

[bud]

Not sure if this is mentioned already (apologies if it has been) but no rules are being broken here at all.

Ferrari receive cash from Phillip Morris. In return Phillip Morris own the advertising space on the Ferrari F1 cars and control who sponsors the team.

Further to this Phillip Morris use Ferrari in advertising campaigns. In effect, Ferrari sponsor Phillip Morris, not Phillip Morris sponsor Ferrari. Nothing against this in the rules at all.

Im not sure but really even so thats not what the topic is about, the point is tobacco advertising and sponsorship is banned in 2011 in the EU and Ferrari are blatantly profiting from it which is unfair to other teams who had to ditch their big tobacco sponsors.

They may be profiting but no rules are being broken unless you a re a bone-fide conspiracy theorist. It is only unfair in that the EBD was unfair because certain teams didn't think of it first. This is really quite a clever way to get round the tobacco advetising ban.

Youre kidding right? Ferrari Sponsor Marlboro??? So Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro being the team name i take it in your reasoning, Marlboro is the constructor??? Shell sponsor Marlboro too?

I've heard such crap reasoning on this debate before but this takes the cake.

[andrew]

Youre kidding right? Ferrari Sponsor Marlboro??? So Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro being the team name i take it in your reasoning, Marlboro is the constructor??? Shell sponsor Marlboro too?

I've heard such crap reasoning on this debate before but this takes the cake.

If it is crap, please demonstrate in what way it is not correct. Just blindly saying it is crap is meaningless.

Care to show me where on the Ferrari F1 car that Marlboro or Phillip Morris are mentioned? I'll tell you the answer - no where at all. Marlboro is only mentioned on official FIA documentation and above the team garage at certain races. Hardly good exposure is it? You have to ask yourself why a company would pay such a huge sum to an F1 team for virtually no exposure at all.

The obvious answer is that Phillip Morris control who sponsors Ferrari. I read this a while ago and don’t have a source to hand, however even without a source it makes perfect sense.

Basically, Ferrari will sell the sponsorship space for a sum which Phillip Morris then pass on at a slightly higher price than what they bought it for. Phillip Morris make a small profit and Ferrari make a huge amount. Very similar to what happens in the commercial property market with sub-leases.

[bud]

Phillip Morris hand over money to Ferrari, that is sponsorship! they are the title sponsor! End of, no matter how you want to spin it.

Owning rights to the cars space means little. Ferrari still have the say who sponsors them, But instead of paying Ferrari the sponsor would hand over the cash to Phillip Morris.

I work in marketing industry mate, and to say why invest in a team with no exposure at all? are you kidding again? Being in the team title is as good as it gets for Sponsors. Besides theres their new logo, It is hardly done for any other purpose than for Marlboro exposure. Ask any graphic designer they will tell you this.



this is Ferraris logo, there is no need for the above logo if they didn't want Marlboro exposure.

[andrew]

Phillip Morris hand over money to Ferrari, that is sponsorship! they are the title sponsor! End of, no matter how you want to spin it.

The rules prohibit the advertising of tobacco products on the cars and overalls, they do not limit where a team can get its money from. Do you not think that the FIA and the other teams would be up in arms if Ferrari had brokne the tobacco advertising ban?

Clearly that is the F1 teams logo but I don't see where Marlboro is hinted at. If a graphic designer thinks that this logo hints at Marlboro then they have not done a very good job at convincing me. All it says to me is Scuderia Ferrari.

this is Ferraris logo, there is no need for the above logo if they didn't want Marlboro exposure.

This is the Ferrari car company logo, not the F1 team. There is a difference between the car company and the F1 team.

Bottom line, no rules have been broken.

[bud]

Phillip Morris hand over money to Ferrari, that is sponsorship! they are the title sponsor! End of, no matter how you want to spin it.

The rules prohibit the advertising of tobacco products on the cars and overalls, they do not limit where a team can get its money from. Do you not think that the FIA and the other teams would be up in arms if Ferrari had brokne the tobacco advertising ban?

You need to understand the meaning of advertising, clearly! Ferrari have broken the ban, who is to say the other teams are not happy about it? what goes on in FOTA is not for us to know. As for the FIA, well dont even need to go there do we... FIArarri days and all that!

Clearly that is the F1 teams logo but I don't see where Marlboro is hinted at. If a graphic designer thinks that this logo hints at Marlboro then they have not done a very good job at convincing me. All it says to me is Scuderia Ferrari.

Clearly you know nothing about design do you! This shits even taught in college as subliminal advertising!

this is Ferraris logo, there is no need for the above logo if they didn't want Marlboro exposure.

This is the Ferrari car company logo, not the F1 team. There is a difference between the car company and the F1 team.

Bottom line, no rules have been broken.

You need to learn your Ferrari history!!!! That is FERRARI's logo, you know the team Enzo created and sold road cars as a side project to fund his F1 team. They come under the same Logo!

Rules have been broken dont you worry! Ferrari are unique in the history of F1 with being allowed to break many a rule!

[LewEngBridewell]

Rules have been broken dont you worry! Ferrari are unique in the history of F1 with being allowed to break many a rule!

[bud]

scuderia-ferrari-logo.png

much better with out the Marlboro element

[andrew]

You need to understand the meaning of advertising, clearly! Ferrari have broken the ban, who is to say the other teams are not happy about it? what goes on in FOTA is not for us to know. As for the FIA, well dont even need to go there do we... FIArarri days and all that!

If you are going to hide behind the BS strawman, tinfoil hat theory of FIArrari then there is little point in having a reasonable and sensible discussion is there?

You clearly need to learn your F1 history. Ferrari favours were under Max Mosley's reign not Jean Todt, who was pretty much shunned by Ferrari by Luca di Montezemolo, pretty much as Schumacher was for the crime of leaving.

Clearly you know nothing about design do you! This shits even taught in college as subliminal advertising!

Subliminal advertising?! Sorry but I don’t know anyone who can say that this logo says Ferrari. For subliminal advertising to work, you need to know what is being subliminally advertised. For example, in the UK a whenever another dreadful series of Big Brother was on the horizon, Channel 4 flashed an eye logo between adverts. This was clearly subliminal advertising but no one knew what it was until they heard about Big Brother. Of course those who are keen on F1 will be aware of the Marlboro link but I’ll wager that any lay person seeing this logo for the first time would not make the Phillip Morris/Marlboro link.

Surely if you want to go down the subliminal advertising route then it could be argued that McLaren are still sponsored by West and Renault are sponsored by JPL. Of course neither are but someone could be excused for making these links.

You need to learn your Ferrari history!!!! That is FERRARI's logo, you know the team Enzo created and sold road cars as a side project to fund his F1 team. They come under the same Logo!

Well darn, gosh I didn’t knows that! Of course I know that! I’m not a total imbecile!

The Ferrari F1 team logo is one with the red background. The Ferrari company logo is the prancing horse. There is a difference.

Rules have been broken dont you worry! Ferrari are unique in the history of F1 with being allowed to break many a rule!

Care to say which rules have been broken? I think those days have long gone since the demise of MrM. Lets answer this with facts and not leaps of faith based around subliminal advertising.

Anyway, I've said my piece on this and will leave it at that as I am sure the moderators will be along soon.

[bud]

Leaps of faith around sublimnal advertising? I guess Marlboro handing cash over to be Ferrari title sponsor is a leap of faith? As we discussed :Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro, their logo is this

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes their logo is this

this is McLarens logo



In the end, You have not a clue what you're talking about, you are a layman when it comes to the functions of graphic design. So yes please leave this thread you're just polluting it with argumentative BS!

[What's Burning?]

I've never put much stake in "subliminal" images. In the end, it's the team name being announced as Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro that isn't subliminal.

[acosmichippo]

I've yet to actually see what the "rules" around tobacco sponsorship are, so I'll withhold judgement on that. If it says "no sponsorship" (which I would assume it must since other teams dropped lucrative tobacco deals) then I'd say there are rules being broken. But if it's simply a matter of "no advertising" I would have to give them a pass since there's nothing directly "Marlboro" on the car, uniforms, etc...

...although...

...there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the SF logo was 100% designed by Marlboro to resemble their logo from a distance and in peripheral vision. I am not, nor have I ever been a smoker, and even I find myself thinking it's a marlboro logo when I notice it out of the corner of my eye. As bud said, there is absolutely no reason for Ferrari to have a separate logo for their F1 team other than to incorporate Marlboro - just like the "bar code".

[spankyham]

I think it's time for me me to light up a Marlboro (and I don't even smoke), pour myself a huge Scotch (Johnny Walker of course) and place a call to Colonel Gadafi to try and get him to buy some shares in an F1 team.