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[grumpyoldman]

Why 2006 points? Phil Mackereth left McLaren in September 2006, towards the end of the season and it would be doubtful that any of 'his' ideas could be implemented in that short amount of time to have an impact on the outcome of the championship...

How many doubts about the McLaren case were there?

McLaren were using Ferrari technical data which explains there sudden upsurge in form...

Great, so McLaren would have made better use of some Ferrari information than what Ferrari made of their own, complete information.

First post on this forum, so please be kind!

I just wondered why you think the drivers should go unpunished?

I realise McLaren drivers were not punished, but that was part of a deal with Bernie/Max (a deal I think should never have happened, and I am a McLaren fan). Punishments under the Regulations are for both teams and drivers in such cases; and drivers can only be "let-off" under exceptional circumstances; as was the case with McLaren. There are no such "exceptional" circumstances in Renaults case.

First, welcome to the forum, especially as a fellow McLaren supporter.

As for the drivers, the FIA have set a precedent which they must follow. How can they strip Alonso of his 2006 standing (world champion) and not have stripped him of his 2007 standing?

It is all academic now we have received the "verdict", however, thought I would just clarify.

There is something in the Regulations that means previous years results will not not be re-visited so 2006 was never in question for Renault.

But in respect of the point I was trying to make, the Regulations state -

"penalties applicable to the competitors or to the drivers : suspension for one or more events, fine, withdrawal of Championship points. Points should not be deducted separately from drivers and competitors, save in exceptional circumstances."

In the McLaren sying scenario it was necessary to make a "pact" with the drivers to get the necessary evidence (emails); deemed to fit with the "exceptional circumstances" described. Renault had no such circumstances and the drivers should have been punished along with the team.

Anyway, doesn't really matter, the FIA have gone their own special way!

Thank you for the welcoming - lets hope we (McLaren) have a better year in 2008!

[deMuRe]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Renault were stealing McLaren technical data it explains their sudden loss in form...

McLaren were using Ferrari technical data which explains there sudden upsurge in form...

Renault should have stolen Ferrari's data...

that sounds like something a kid fan would come up with!

Well yeah, it came from a Scummi fan, didn't it ?

You guys need to loosen up...

You're team's been caught cheating, you're gonna get the p!ss taken out of you, deal with it

[racechick]

Renault been caught cheating too. Just not punished

[racechick]

PS Ferrari been caught cheating lots an lots o times. They get indulgent smiles.

[al4x]

mclaren dont like renault, they got the mass dampener banned

[texasmr2]

McLaren was caught cheating 'RED HANDED' as was Renault but as alway's we have a complete 90 degree turn around and only hear "Oh Ferrari did this and Ferrari did that " , god it's like 1st grade all over again!

[bud]

everyones throwing the cheating word around like Ferrari have NEVER done anything wrong.

think everyone needs a wakeup call

[raithrover]

You cannot have different rules for different teams, it makes a mockery of the sport and the rules they must follow.

[grumpyoldman]

Clearly though the FIA are happy to have one rule for one and a different rule for the rest.

Paragraph 8.5 of the WMSC decision of 13 Sep -

"Rather, the WMSC is entitled to treat possession of another team’s information as an offence meriting a penalty on its own if it so chooses."

It chose to punish McLaren, but not to punish Renault.

[al4x]

i think ferrari should have controlled there employee from leaking documents to mclaren
they were partly to blame as well

[racechick]

Absolutely!

[al4x]

ferrais new winning stratagy, plant its data in another team and inform the fia!!

[grumpyoldman]

al4x & racechick, I'm not sure if you are referring to the first Spy case or not, it appears you are. I am a McLaren fan through and through and will defend them to the hilt where I can. However, the second Stepney approached any McLaren employee with confidential information the reaction should have been to go straight to the FIA. If that had happened then yes Ferrari would have been in the doo doo. But because McLaren didn't do that and went on to try and illicit further information via email, text and telephone calls, I am afraid it is only right that McLaren pay the price; which they have done.

That said I still stand by my previous post where the FIA have one rule for one team and a different rule for the rest!

[texasmr2]

i think ferrari should have controlled there employee from leaking documents to mclaren
they were partly to blame as well

Ok I was not gonna reply but the 'Ferrai lamb' in me feel's the need to . How was Ferrari supposed to control their 'employee from leaking document's' when they were unaware of it until it surfaced at a later date? The same goes for McLaren with their 'stolen data' taken to Renault. I hope you see the point I'm trying to make is that's it's virtually impossible to stop a high level employee who has full access to all the team's data from stealing it in some form or fashion if they want to.

[al4x]

its just such a mess that i wish renault wasnt involved in, its not good for the sport