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[bud]

I dont believe Mclaren favour either driver. They like their drivers to race, always have.

Eh? Coultard wasn't a number 2 then? They don't want their drivers racing each other unconditionally, I don't think any team does.

As for the Wing thing,

It was their wing, but Redbull can't claim to treat their drivers equally when they intentionally disadvantage one driver to favour the other - i.e. taking of Webbers new wing to give to Vettel. If they only had one wing that's different, as the only way for equal treatment would be to discard it, which is stupid.

But Vettel's wing breaking, yeah its bad luck, but it isn't Webber's fault.

DC beat Mika in points a few times,

And Fraf I don't see how you think MW favours Jenson? He has known Lewis for a decade and Jenson 2 years...

[FRAFPDD]

I dont believe Mclaren favour either driver. They like their drivers to race, always have.

Eh? Coultard wasn't a number 2 then? They don't want their drivers racing each other unconditionally, I don't think any team does.

As for the Wing thing,

It was their wing, but Redbull can't claim to treat their drivers equally when they intentionally disadvantage one driver to favour the other - i.e. taking of Webbers new wing to give to Vettel. If they only had one wing that's different, as the only way for equal treatment would be to discard it, which is stupid.

But Vettel's wing breaking, yeah its bad luck, but it isn't Webber's fault.

DC beat Mika in points a few times,

And Fraf I don't see how you think MW favours Jenson? He has known Lewis for a decade and Jenson 2 years...

I can see how you dont see how i (still following ? ) can see him favouring Jenson, its purely the gesticulating and the body language and that Jenson seems to get on better with his new team. Id have to go back from Bahrain 2010 and all BBC interviews/ pre-race shows to show you what i mean, but im sure of it, i just think Whitmarsh does all in his power to swing Mclaren Jensons way, after all, Alonso could of easily won in 2007 if the team favoured him, which they really should of being the current champion, but they didnt because Dennis (in charge, like Whitmarsh is now) favoured Hamilton, its not that far-fetched to see it happen.

Dennis also favoured Senna over current driver Prost straight from 88. The team Principals are still human, they have preferences.

[bud]

I never saw any favoritism to Hamilton against Alonso! Hell up until Monaco they were favoring Alonso until the backlash they got there, McLaren were even investigated for favoring Fernando there. After that race the team made it clear it would be equal which is what pissed Alonso off and cause him to have his dummy spit.
But MW favoring Jenson? I've never seen it, but if it appears he is perhaps he is trying overly hard not to appear to be favoring Lewis

[Hammer278]

I dont believe Mclaren favour either driver. They like their drivers to race, always have.

Im sure they do, but that doesnt mean they dont want one to do better, Whitmarsh likes Button better.

I know what you mean from some of the things he says but hopefully he's professional enough to not allow his likes and dislike to influence his decisions.

What in the world makes you both think Whitmarsh likes Mr Cruise and Collect better??

[racechick]

I dont believe Mclaren favour either driver. They like their drivers to race, always have.

Im sure they do, but that doesnt mean they dont want one to do better, Whitmarsh likes Button better.

I know what you mean from some of the things he says but hopefully he's professional enough to not allow his likes and dislike to influence his decisions.

What in the world makes you both think Whitmarsh likes Mr Cruise and Collect better??

I like Whitmarsh, and to be fair he probably doesnt. Just the odd little thing makes me wonder. He's very quick to protect Button after a poor performance (and so he should be). But he made frequent reference to 'the bad start' being the problem in the last GP. The bad stat was clearly Lewis but he didnt say there were clutch problems/overheating etc, just kept saying we couldnt recover from the bad start. He doesnt keep on about poor qualifying. Its probably just me reading too much into it. As i say I think Whitmarsh comes over as a nice grounded bloke, so I hope that little niggling feeling I have is wrong.

[Denthúl]

But MW favoring Jenson? I've never seen it, but if it appears he is perhaps he is trying overly hard not to appear to be favoring Lewis

I think this is the case. There was a lot of criticism for Ron Dennis, particularly after the "we're racing Fernando" comments, so I think Whitmarsh is trying to combat the "Lewis' team" label that was stuck on McLaren, especially when it was announced that Jenson would be joining them. Despite the odd comment, he's done a very, very good job of managing two competitive world champions and giving them equal opportunities. I really like Martin and, I have to say that with the exception of the chrome, the new-look McLaren. The problem here is that he's obviously under a lot of pressure to deliver and I've heard a fair few comments aimed at him about how McLaren have won no championships since he took over from Ron and have had some issues with cars of late. 2009 wasn't a great year, although the development was good and 2011 was really saved only by a last-minute update package, similar to the BMW Sauber of 2008, which went on to have further issues throughout the season.

I don't doubt that his time will come and he will taste the champagne as one of his drivers takes the crown again, but I don't think that will be this year.

[Big Azza]

But there were certainly fireworks especially when they crashe at Turkey and when Vettel got Webbrs wing at Silverstone.

Sorry to single you out racechick and I may be going on like a cracked record, but the whole "Webber's Wing-gate" thing ticks me off.

Once again - did the wing have Mark Webber's name on it? Or did it have Red Bull's name on it?

As it was Red Bull wing, and it was the only one they had, Red Bull had the right to give the wing to whoever they chose.

I you where a parent with 2 kids and you bought them both ice creams. One of them dropped there ice cream on the floor. Would you take the icecream off the other one and give it to the one that dropped theirs?

Excellent analagy!!

No it's not - I don't think it is a good analogy at all!

That is a here-and-now matter. If those parent with two kids were racing a bunch of parent-with-two-kids teams in an ice-cream licking competition to win $100,000 and the child who dropped his icecream had proven that he was the best licker up until that point in time, then the needy parents would give the last remaining ice-cream to the child who has the best chance of winning the ice-cream licking competition. It's not punishment - it's doing what's best for the team in the grand scheme of things.

Comparing these drivers to children when they are sporting professionals in a team is not a good analogy, in my opinion (although sometimes it is fitting when they are throwing a tanty ). In cricket the best batsmen open the order, in football you give the ball to your fastest winger. If there was a match-winning penalty kick to be taken, you'dn give it to the best striker on your team... etc.

[racechick]

But there were certainly fireworks especially when they crashe at Turkey and when Vettel got Webbrs wing at Silverstone.

Sorry to single you out racechick and I may be going on like a cracked record, but the whole "Webber's Wing-gate" thing ticks me off.

Once again - did the wing have Mark Webber's name on it? Or did it have Red Bull's name on it?

As it was Red Bull wing, and it was the only one they had, Red Bull had the right to give the wing to whoever they chose.

I you where a parent with 2 kids and you bought them both ice creams. One of them dropped there ice cream on the floor. Would you take the icecream off the other one and give it to the one that dropped theirs?

Excellent analagy!!

No it's not - I don't think it is a good analogy at all!

That is a here-and-now matter. If those parent with two kids were racing a bunch of parent-with-two-kids teams in an ice-cream licking competition to win $100,000 and the child who dropped his icecream had proven that he was the best licker up until that point in time, then the needy parents would give the last remaining ice-cream to the child who has the best chance of winning the ice-cream licking competition. It's not punishment - it's doing what's best for the team in the grand scheme of things.

Comparing these drivers to children when they are sporting professionals in a team is not a good analogy, in my opinion (although sometimes it is fitting when they are throwing a tanty ). In cricket the best batsmen open the order, in football you give the ball to your fastest winger. If there was a match-winning penalty kick to be taken, you'dn give it to the best striker on your team... etc.

Well lets just have a closer look at what you say here. Up to that point Vettel was the best ice cream licker? Was he? He finished Silverstone behind Webber in the championship standings so on what basis do you work that out? How was that best for the team? Both drivers were employed as professionals and the best Red Bull could employ to lick those ice creams. The guy they gave that ice cream to went right on to drop it again in the race! So I still say that analagy is a good one.

[Hammer278]

All this ice cream talk is going to make me break my sugar/carbs 'fast'.

Anyway, any blind fool is able to tell that Vettel is boy wonder in the team. The front wing-gate was not even required to show us this....Webber is the cannon to shoot Vettel high - the cannonball. One very experienced driver to help push the future of the team, is this so hard to understand?

The RB fans can continue kidding themselves about 'equal treatment' blah blah blah.

[Big Azza]

But there were certainly fireworks especially when they crashe at Turkey and when Vettel got Webbrs wing at Silverstone.

Sorry to single you out racechick and I may be going on like a cracked record, but the whole "Webber's Wing-gate" thing ticks me off.

Once again - did the wing have Mark Webber's name on it? Or did it have Red Bull's name on it?

As it was Red Bull wing, and it was the only one they had, Red Bull had the right to give the wing to whoever they chose.

I you where a parent with 2 kids and you bought them both ice creams. One of them dropped there ice cream on the floor. Would you take the icecream off the other one and give it to the one that dropped theirs?

Excellent analagy!!

No it's not - I don't think it is a good analogy at all!

That is a here-and-now matter. If those parent with two kids were racing a bunch of parent-with-two-kids teams in an ice-cream licking competition to win $100,000 and the child who dropped his icecream had proven that he was the best licker up until that point in time, then the needy parents would give the last remaining ice-cream to the child who has the best chance of winning the ice-cream licking competition. It's not punishment - it's doing what's best for the team in the grand scheme of things.

Comparing these drivers to children when they are sporting professionals in a team is not a good analogy, in my opinion (although sometimes it is fitting when they are throwing a tanty ). In cricket the best batsmen open the order, in football you give the ball to your fastest winger. If there was a match-winning penalty kick to be taken, you'dn give it to the best striker on your team... etc.

Well lets just have a closer look at what you say here. Up to that point Vettel was the best ice cream licker? Was he? He finished Silverstone behind Webber in the championship standings so on what basis do you work that out? How was that best for the team? Both drivers were employed as professionals and the best Red Bull could employ to lick those ice creams. The guy they gave that ice cream to went right on to drop it again in the race! So I still say that analagy is a good one.

Going into that race Vettel was leading Webber in the championship. Red Bull could not have gazed into a crystal ball to see whether Vettel would finish on top after that race. Vettel was fastest during practice, so it was a no-brainer in my opinion.

[Hammer278]

LOL...

Alright looks like you realized it as soon as you posted and edited it. Thank God.

*EDITED*

[bud]

Azza Vettel broke his own wing, bad luck. Your argument is crap because Webber was not miles behind in points he was going for the title too, not just Vettel.

[racechick]

But there were certainly fireworks especially when they crashe at Turkey and when Vettel got Webbrs wing at Silverstone.

Sorry to single you out racechick and I may be going on like a cracked record, but the whole "Webber's Wing-gate" thing ticks me off.

Once again - did the wing have Mark Webber's name on it? Or did it have Red Bull's name on it?

As it was Red Bull wing, and it was the only one they had, Red Bull had the right to give the wing to whoever they chose.

I you where a parent with 2 kids and you bought them both ice creams. One of them dropped there ice cream on the floor. Would you take the icecream off the other one and give it to the one that dropped theirs?

Excellent analagy!!

No it's not - I don't think it is a good analogy at all!

That is a here-and-now matter. If those parent with two kids were racing a bunch of parent-with-two-kids teams in an ice-cream licking competition to win $100,000 and the child who dropped his icecream had proven that he was the best licker up until that point in time, then the needy parents would give the last remaining ice-cream to the child who has the best chance of winning the ice-cream licking competition. It's not punishment - it's doing what's best for the team in the grand scheme of things.

Comparing these drivers to children when they are sporting professionals in a team is not a good analogy, in my opinion (although sometimes it is fitting when they are throwing a tanty ). In cricket the best batsmen open the order, in football you give the ball to your fastest winger. If there was a match-winning penalty kick to be taken, you'dn give it to the best striker on your team... etc.

Well lets just have a closer look at what you say here. Up to that point Vettel was the best ice cream licker? Was he? He finished Silverstone behind Webber in the championship standings so on what basis do you work that out? How was that best for the team? Both drivers were employed as professionals and the best Red Bull could employ to lick those ice creams. The guy they gave that ice cream to went right on to drop it again in the race! So I still say that analagy is a good one.

Going into that race Vettel was leading Webber in the championship. Red Bull could not have gazed into a crystal ball to see whether Vettel would finish on top after that race. Vettel was fastest during practice, so it was a no-brainer in my opinion.

Those drivers entered that race very close in the championship, so close that even a point scoring Vettel couldnt retain the lead. And Webber had race wins, behind him, two I think. Yes Webber was faster in quali, a littlle..... about the difference the new wing made actually.

[Big Azza]

Azza Vettel broke his own wing, bad luck. Your argument is crap because Webber was not miles behind in points he was going for the title too, not just Vettel.

Then Red Bull's argument was crap too.

I still believe that they would've done the same thing if Webber damaged his wing but was leading the championship.

[vaptin]

Azza Vettel broke his own wing, bad luck. Your argument is crap because Webber was not miles behind in points he was going for the title too, not just Vettel.

Then Red Bull's argument was crap too.

I still believe that they would've done the same thing if Webber damaged his wing but was leading the championship.

Redbull's argument is crap because they kept on going on about how they have no number 1 or 2 and treat their drivers equally. This was clearly favouring a driver, it was in Abu Dhabi wasn't it? That they kept on going on about how they wouldn't order Vettel to give way to Webber if needed, and Horner kept pointing out their drivers crashing in Turkey and insisting what Ferrari did with their drivers was unfair.