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[racechick]

The fact that SV has made the fewest mistakes and has been driving amazingly particularly in quali, in this day and age where consistency reigns supreme, makes him the best driver.

But if you have the best grip and speed, you don't have to drive to the very limits, for trying to harvest time on the track. furthermore you start from the front row, so you don't have to risk at overtakes or getting anxious behind others! So it is less likely to make mistakes.
Thats why I believe SV is not the best driver, and he hasn't proved himself. Not yet. In my list he is underneath JB.

SV IS very much driving on the limit during quali - he basically starts the race in quali and then continues from pole to lead home in a masterful and flawless manner. Don't forget, he basically can't use the DRS because he's usually the hunted - that's quite a disadvantage as shown in Canada, therefore he HAS to stay in front by more than 1 second at all times, which he usually does quite neatly and without ruining his tires prematurely or going off track (with the exception of Canada).

Yes he has to go on the limit in quali, thats usually for 1 lap. In the race much of the time he's controlling from the front.If he had to overtake he'd make mistakes. Even in that situation he's made a mistake. The chasing drivers in poorer machinary have it much harder.

[What's Burning?]

SV IS very much driving on the limit during quali - he basically starts the race in quali and then continues from pole to lead home in a masterful and flawless manner. Don't forget, he basically can't use the DRS because he's usually the hunted - that's quite a disadvantage as shown in Canada, therefore he HAS to stay in front by more than 1 second at all times, which he usually does quite neatly and without ruining his tires prematurely or going off track (with the exception of Canada).

Psst... and China.

The car is designed to run best in clean air, his car is quicker by at least 3 or 4 tenths of a second and they don't activate the DRS right away, so his critical driving come in the first 3 or 4 laps of the race, the rest is cruise control. His task is even easier if the drivers behind him are fighting for position.

We have only two clear facts, one being that Vettel is demonstrably better than Webber, and two that Vettel is executing his team's chosen strategy (maximizing on their car's strengths) nearly flawlessly. Anything outside of that is opinion or an educated guesses.

[F1er]

Sorry Bernie No tire war,no engine development,no etc etc and we're left with NEWEY not Vettel,ruling Formula Aero.

It's clear since 09 that Ferrari and MAC dont know how to make downforce!!!!

[Bubbie]

Alonso might be the most consistent, and best all rounder, but not the best in any category.

Hamilton might be the best overtaker, the best racer and the best at making up his cars deficiencies, but he lacks in maturity on/off track, and makes silly mistakes at crucial times.

Vettel might be the fastest, and be the best at starting from pole, but his overtaking is below par and his in the pack racing isnt the best by far.



Why each drivers respective fans cant just accept what theyre good and bad at i dont know, but the main problem in 2011 is that the Vettel fans, want to have their cake, eat it, sick it up again, and munch on it once more. They dont just want people to recognise Vettel is a top driver, they want everyone to "accept" the absurd notion that they are just lying to themselves that Vettel isnt the next Senna. You recognise that Vettel is a wordly talent and hhis current form is top notch, but then its not good enough when you dare to say its not the car doing the most work! Because it damn well is.

...

Excellent post about the conflicting strengths of each driver - I would have to say spot on.

But to your point about Vettel fans saying he is greater than all. I don't see that at all. I see them saying that their driver is on par with the best - Alonso and Hamilton - and then some people pop in and say he is only up there because of the car or Adrian Newey. That is what sets them off to have to protect their driver.

[racechick]

Newey by a whisker?

[F1er]

OK then Who is the bigger asset Newey or Vettel??

[racechick]

OK then Who is the bigger asset Newey or Vettel??

Newey. No contest. The red bull would be winning with one of 3 or 4 drivers at least. vettel would not be winning if he wasnt in the red bull.

[vlad]

[F1er]

OK then Who is the bigger asset Newey or Vettel??

Newey. No contest. The red bull would be winning with one of 3 or 4 drivers at least. vettel would not be winning if he wasnt in the red bull.

Exactly!!!!!!!! Don't let Vettel fanatics know

[andrew]

OK then Who is the bigger asset Newey or Vettel??

Depends on which side you are looking at.

Side 1 - As far as designing a fantastic car then it is Newey.

Side 2 - However, Vettel can be used for great marketing and PR.

Red Bull can boast about this young kids quick rise to the top of F1 in their car. Similarly, McLaren could play on Hamiltons ethnic background (supposedly the 1st coloured champion) and his youth, Benetton had Schumacher being the 1st German champion on God knows how long and at the time the youngest double WDC, Ferrari had their 21 year wait coupled with Schumacher at the time still having the matle of the greatest driver ever. I'm sure there are more examples.

MrE is looking at side 2. Right now F1 must be pretty marketable with this young kid running away with things, along with DRS, KERS and fragile tyres.

[FRAFPDD]

Alonso might be the most consistent, and best all rounder, but not the best in any category.

Hamilton might be the best overtaker, the best racer and the best at making up his cars deficiencies, but he lacks in maturity on/off track, and makes silly mistakes at crucial times.

Vettel might be the fastest, and be the best at starting from pole, but his overtaking is below par and his in the pack racing isnt the best by far.



Why each drivers respective fans cant just accept what theyre good and bad at i dont know, but the main problem in 2011 is that the Vettel fans, want to have their cake, eat it, sick it up again, and munch on it once more. They dont just want people to recognise Vettel is a top driver, they want everyone to "accept" the absurd notion that they are just lying to themselves that Vettel isnt the next Senna. You recognise that Vettel is a wordly talent and hhis current form is top notch, but then its not good enough when you dare to say its not the car doing the most work! Because it damn well is.

...

Excellent post about the conflicting strengths of each driver - I would have to say spot on.

But to your point about Vettel fans saying he is greater than all. I don't see that at all. I see them saying that their driver is on par with the best - Alonso and Hamilton - and then some people pop in and say he is only up there because of the car or Adrian Newey. That is what sets them off to have to protect their driver.

Yeah well i personally feel theyre more jumped up then Hamilton fans through 07-08, naturally, because hes winning everything.

But the same about "sets the off to have to protect their driver" is EXACTLY why Hamilton fans have such bad rep, he gets attacked and attacked and attacked, sometimes Massa comments s*** loads of "fans" comments, haters, past word champions, everyone is always digging at Hamilton, and his fans need to big him up constantly to defend him.

Theres litterally no abnormalities about these things, its an exact science, Alonso fans have a lower proportion of waht youd call fanboys because hes hardly attacked, especially nowadays, they can mellow, since his debut Hamiltons had s*** and s*** and s*** every day and every night, hes got a higher proportion of fanboys cause they have to be that fanatical just to cancel the rabidness of his haters, of which there are many and they are vicious.

Vettel fans dont have much to moan about, the only people that dont like Vettel are the ones that dont like his domination/finger, the ones that dont rate him as a suoer-talent are not haters, but the Vettel fans want to stir s*** anyway.

[Bubbie]

OK then Who is the bigger asset Newey or Vettel??

The prosecution rests.

[Denthúl]

OK then Who is the bigger asset Newey or Vettel??

Newey. No contest. The red bull would be winning with one of 3 or 4 drivers at least. vettel would not be winning if he wasnt in the red bull.

A statement which you can't really back up with any evidence, considering Vettel hasn't driven any of the other cars and the other drivers haven't driven the Red Bull.

[F1er]

OK then Who is the bigger asset Newey or Vettel??

Newey. No contest. The red bull would be winning with one of 3 or 4 drivers at least. vettel would not be winning if he wasnt in the red bull.

A statement which you can't really back up with any evidence, considering Vettel hasn't driven any of the other cars and the other drivers haven't driven the Red Bull.

Evidence???????????? You can't be that naive!

Ferrari have been poaching Newey for 3 years,if the key to their success laid with Vettel wouldn't you think they'd offer him the deal of a lifetime?

[Denthúl]

OK then Who is the bigger asset Newey or Vettel??

Newey. No contest. The red bull would be winning with one of 3 or 4 drivers at least. vettel would not be winning if he wasnt in the red bull.

A statement which you can't really back up with any evidence, considering Vettel hasn't driven any of the other cars and the other drivers haven't driven the Red Bull.

Evidence???????????? You can't be that naive!

Ferrari have been poaching Newey for 3 years,if the key to their success laid with Vettel wouldn't you think they'd offer him the deal of a lifetime?

At no point did I claim Vettel was the key to their success.