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[What's Burning?]

In a decade or two... This will be the dominant force in F1

[nish2280]

In other countries, is it famous like coke?

It sure is, probably the biggest Energy drink in most countries. They market to so many types of sport, music and culture and thus have a large consumer base.

Imagine the size of the consumer base if it didn't taste like crap?

Imagine the size of Mclaren's consumer base if their road cars didn't look like crap.

Its all down to opinion. I think it tastes good, and im guessing so does everyone who drinks it. You might not, in the same way i dont like the look of Porsche's cars.

McLaren makes cars?

And shoes!

RedBull tastes alright, anyone had the original version from Thailand? I got some cool RedBull T's from Thailand a few years back, Written in the Thai language. I feel like a backpacker every time i wear it!

Yeah i have tried the drink that inspired Redbull, its similar except it is a bit more like a syrup and its not carbonated. I didnt like it that much but i guess Dietrich Mateschitz did!

[acosmichippo]

Red Bull has one of the most aggressive marketing campaigns of almost any company. In addition to their motorsports involvement, in the US they have street teams that go around in Red Bull-themed Minis and give out free cans of the stuff at busy locations. They came to my workplace on pretty average weekends a couple times a year.

Now a lot of energy drink companies do that, but as far as I know, red bull was the first to take it to such a degree.

[andrew]

Why Red Bull is so strong?

2 words

Adrian Newey.

'Nuff said.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

I think Red Bull is so strong.
What point is better than the others team?
Driver? Engine? Machine Architecture? Pit crew? All of them?
What do you think?...

There is only one plausible explanation:



魔術

[geetface9]

I would have to say if they didn't have adrian newery and NO ONE had him, we'd see a lot closer racing than we do now. The man is brilliant.

And all by hand:

Anybody else notice he's left handed?! I'm left handed too woooooooooooooooooooot!!!!!!

[bigpat]

Funny how the "magic bullet theory" of the flexi front wing that had so many here wound up, with wild ideas of how it works/ is activated isn't an issue any more for either the either the other teams, or fans on forums..... It's proven once again there is no one item that proves why a car is so fast. People have short memories.....

No doubt Adrian Newey is a vital piece of the puzzle, and is someone I hugely admire. But he doesn't do it alone.

Peter Prodromou is the head aerodynamicist of a good group. You can be sure a lot of the aero dominance is due to him....

The beautiful packaging of the car would fall in large part to the skills of chief designer Rob Marshall.......

It is a combination of the human, and mechanical factors that add up to a winner. There is no substitute for working hard on ALL areas of the package.

There is no doubt that Newey drives the concept of the car. His obsession with aero and intricacy has had its downfalls, both at Mc Laren and Red Bull. Remember the unreliability the MP4-18 / MP4-19A, and to some extent the RB-3, 4, & 5. Look at the niggles they had last year, and the KERS issues this year, mainly related to heat, (due to tight packaging and marginal cooling). Adrian Newey is known for sometimes pushing too far on the mechanical side of things, in interest of aerodynamics. It never happened at Williams due to Patrick Head keeping a hold on the mechanical side of things.

I know Red Bull makes heaps of cash globally, but I doubt they have the biggest budget in F1. Toyota proved money doesn't buy speed. Ferrari and McLaren both haven't really done full justice to their knowingly bigger budgets either. I think the resource restrictions had a part in accelerating Red Bull's rise. There is a premium on getting it right from the start of the season, and building on that. In years gone by, the big teams could just test endlessly with new developments until they got right, chewing up tens of millions of dollars. In F1's manufacturer prime, the big boys spent up to a total of $300-$400 million a year. Now you can compete successfully for $70-90 million....I still don't think McLaren & Ferrari have adapted to the changes that wiped out their big strengths, cash. Nowadays you have to think harder, and work smarter, and that suits Newey's skills perfectly.

I still think that in the modern F1 era, the most influential technical director is still John Barnard. One man alone can be credited with the following:

First carbon fibre chassis, introduction of carbon brakes to F1, carbon suspension, flexure suspension pivots, titanium/ carbon gearboxes, semi -automatic gearchange, and torsion bar suspension springs. Not bad ehh..........

[myownalias]

And bigpat comes in and puts us all to shame with his all seeing knowledge... nice one!

[What's Burning?]

I know Red Bull makes heaps of cash globally, but I doubt they have the biggest budget in F1. Toyota proved money doesn't buy speed.

I seem to recall reading something in last year's silly season discussion about Red Bull's budget I believe it was something around 265 million... which was the biggest budget in F1. Perhaps someone else can find the source, I cam up empty in my search.

[bigpat]

Find out whether that's for Red Bull alone, or for both RB & STR.....

I may be wrong, but I still don't think that budget alone buys championships. McLaren and Ferrari, and Mercedes must spend at least the same. BMW, and Toyota would have dwarfed that. Toyota was known to spend US$500 million a year........

Red Bull are just smarter!

[Big Azza]

In searching the net I found some results on a rival forum. Without mentioning that rival forum (no sources were given) I have found these stats. Hence I have copied everything this "well-informed" person wrote and pasted it below - which hopefully isn't plagiarism.

1] Ferrari: €440m (Same budget since 2008, 2012 will see it go down to €300m)
2] McLaren: €320m (Down €5m on 2010, 2012 will see it go down to €285m)
3] Red Bull: €285m (up €40m on 2010, will stay same for 2012)
4] Mercedes: €225m (up €40m on 2010, will stay same for 2012)
5] Renault: €185m (down €40m on 2010, uncertain for 2012)
6] Williams: €140m (down €40m on 2010, will stay same for 2012)
7] Force India: €135m (up €10m on 2010, will drop to €130m for 2012)
8] Sauber: €125m (up from €75m in 2010, will stay same in 2012)
=] Toro Rosso: €125m (up €15m from 2010, will increase to €140m in 2012)
10] Team Lotus: €120m (€20m up on 2010, however 2012 will see this riase to a minimum of €150m)
11] Virgin: €66m (up from €45m in 2010, this is expected to rise to €85m for 2012)
12] Hispania: €55m (up from a €38.6m budget, expected to rise to a budget of arround €65m to €70m in 2012)

Staff are also an important resource in determining the resourcefulness of an F1 team:

1] Ferrari: 900-950 staff (same since 2007/2008, reducing to 450-500 from 2012 onward)
2] McLaren: 750-785 staff (same since 2007/2008, reducing to 450 from 2012)
3] Red Bull: 450-485 (Same since 2008, but will remain roughly the same for 2012)
4] Renault: 400-420 (down from 550 in 2008/2009, will remain unchanged in 2012)
5] Williams: 380-410 (remains unchanged since arround 2008, however this could drop to arround 350 in 2012)
6] Mercedes: 350-380 (Honda was 750 in 2008, Brawn was 450 in 2009, last year they futher reduced capasity for streamlining operation, now putting a little fat back on, so id estimate 380-400 in 2012)
7] Sauber; 240-270 (BMW Ssauber in 2008/2009 was up at 650, last year they reduced to 225, id recon now they would be looking at 250 as the optimum level)
8] Toro Rosso: 225-235 (increase from the highs of 2008, whitch they had 165 employees, however they are recruting for 2012 to go to 250 employees with arround 45-75 based at Red Bull Technology in Milton Keynes, the rest are at Faenza)
9] Force India: 175-190 (have lost arround 40-50 people to team Team Lotus in the past 18 months)
10] Team Lotus: 185 (Have said they will have 225-240 in 2012 for optimal levels)
11] Hispania: 135 (arround 60-70 are Hispania employees directly, the rest are consultancy or rented from Kolles or Toyota Motorsport GmbH or other consultancy firms or freelance. Recruting at present, id recon that theyd want arround 150-185 for optimal levels)
12] Virgin: 85-120 (Wirth said there was 120 employees in total, with Wirth Research employing roughly 45 guys and Manor Motorsport employing 55 guys, the rest are all consultants or embedded engineers for suppliers. Id recon its now arround 100 with only about 15 Wirth Research guys in the team from now onward, recruting at present, looking for arround 150-185 optimum)
13] Toyota: 85-115 (yes they have left F1, but still have people in Cologne working on F1 projects in terms of the TF109-01 Pirelli car that is being used for tyre testing and for other teams for consultancy work. Back in 2009 they had arround 350-400 working in F1, most of whitch are at Team Lotus/Williams/Ferrari/Hispania now)

[bud]

Yeah I remember that WB, they even had the rumour they asked FOTA for an excemtion because they went over the agreement. This was just for RBR not inclusive of STR

[albertz33]

For me, i think its down to effective management, Adrian Newey may be a great designer, Vettel may be a great driver, but these guys can achieve little without someone who can pull them together into a unit, surround them with the best people and get the best out of them, combine that with good strategy and you have a winning formula. IMHO

[racechick]

Answer to the question. Newey. Simples!

[myownalias]

Answer to the question. Newey. Simples!

I would have said that previously and I did; but bigpat's post has made me think differently; Newey is obviously the driving force but he needs a top notch team or engineers, aerodynamicists etc to achieve what he has; I believe he has built his team over a number of years which would explain how the RB has gotten better over the years!