FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[FerrariFan63]

What's this about Vettel starting his career in a dominant team? Vettel drove for Torro Rosso, a mid-field team. And even the full Red Bull team was not dominant in 2009.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

There are 11 races and 275 first-place points remaining in the 2011 season. Vettel only has 186 at the moment.

But second place has just 109 WDC points. So Vettel could win one more race, then come second the remainder of the season and still would win WDC. Or he could win until Japan, then go on holiday the final four races.

If he wins six more races, he will win WDC regardless ...unless either Webber or Button alone comes first in all the other races.

EDIT:
That should have read, "If he wins six more races, he will win WDC regardless ...unless either Webber or Button alone comes second in those six and wins all the other races."

What's this about Vettel starting his career in a dominant team? Vettel drove for Torro Rosso, a mid-field team. And even the full Red Bull team was not dominant in 2009.

His first drive was with BMW-Sauber. He became the youngest driver ever to score a WDC point while driving a POS BMW.

You can't build an obscenely dominant car. But you can build a great car, which then must be refined to obscene dominance through the skills of the masterful driver.

[McLaren]

Also i kinda feel sorry towards Vettel he has alot of haters now because of him winning all the time...like somone said before...its looking like it might be like the 'Schumacher days' god i hope not

After Vettel's unexpected win in Monza, this led for the media to dub him the "Baby Schumi", "New Schumacher", but Vettel plays down the comparison stating he wanted to be the "New Vettel". He was not just dubbed for his nationality but also because of his driving style, his concentration and the hands-on role he plays behind the scenes with his team of engineers. One difference is that Schumacher does not name his car but Vettel does, Julie (2008), Kate, Kate's Dirty Sister (2009), Luscious Liz, Randy Mandy (2010) and Kinky Kylie (2011).

Nevertheless, the similarities are marked. Like Schumacher, Vettel grew up in a small town with an everyday background—Schumacher's father a bricklayer and Vettel's a carpenter. Both had their first taste of racing at the Kerpen karting track near Cologne, not far from the Nürburgring. Vettel began driving in his garden lapping the garden many times, not even stopping to eat or shower, before he could legally take to the roads, and says his passion for cars was nurtured by watching Schumacher compete. He did not know that he would actually get to race his hero.

Both Schumacher and Vettel impressed in their debut races, both of which took place in the middle of a Formula One season. Neither would ever drive for their debut teams again. Instead, both immediately joined with non-manufacturer teams based upon selling non-automobile related products. Approximately a year after joining their new teams, as underdogs they would stun the Formula One world by winning races in cars few believed capable of winning. In their third full Formula One season and both driving cars numbered 5, both won their first World Drivers' Championship, at which point both drivers had 10 Grand Prix wins on their records. Vettel became the youngest ever driver to win the World Drivers' Championship, while Schumacher, by a little over a week, only narrowly missed out on achieving the very same feat. Both drivers won their non-manufacturer teams' maiden World Drivers' Championship as well as World Constructors' Championship.

After winning his first championship in 2010, and being hailed as the 'Next Schumacher', Vettel has stated he does not want to aim for Schumacher's record after learning how hard it was to get one championship under his belt, though he would like to win more.

and both won championships in obscenely dominant cars.

Anyone listen to the Radio 5 live coverage today? I forget the young British Driver's name, it will come to me soon, he was saying on air that Vettel has started his career in a very dominant car, so it will be easy for him to re-write the record books.

I guess every now and again we get a special world championship, where the car wasn't the most dominant and the driver made the difference. Not many have had those.

They said the same about Hamilton, the very same about Hamilton, and hes in a far more likely team to give him a shot at schumachers records, .

I wouldn't be so sure about that,red bull after all have the biggest budget in F1,so surely they are the most likely to continue success.Yes McLaren have the name thats been about longer ,but money talks these days.Probably the reason why Williams are no longer a major player.

[acosmichippo]

What's this about Vettel starting his career in a dominant team? Vettel drove for Torro Rosso, a mid-field team. And even the full Red Bull team was not dominant in 2009.

Maybe he didn't "start" his career in a dominant team, but he's probably the youngest driver to be in such a dominant car. He's not even 24!

[deMuRe]

When Schumacher finally won the WDC with Ferrari you felt he was going to dominate for a little while longer.

I'm getting the same feeling with Vettel. Adrian Newey has found his feet again, nobody is going to catch him now...

[Jabberwocky]

I could be like 2009, Button did well at the start and then trailed off at the end?!?!

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

What's this about Vettel starting his career in a dominant team? Vettel drove for Torro Rosso, a mid-field team. And even the full Red Bull team was not dominant in 2009.

Maybe he didn't "start" his career in a dominant team, but he's probably the youngest driver to be in such a dominant car. He's not even 24!

Dominant cars don't become dominant without having a masterful driver. Webber certainly isn't experiencing the same success, so it is entirely plausible that no other driver in F1 might have given Newey the skill sets and the feedback he needed as does Vettel to so perfectly refine his creation. It's equally as plausible that Vettel would provide the same developmental capabilities to Ferrari or Merc or Macca and he would find himself in this self-same position had he got a seat with any of them.

[acosmichippo]

I could be like 2009, Button did well at the start and then trailed off at the end?!?!

in 2009, were the other teams already so convinced that they'd lost the championship after 8 races?

[vlad]

No way they were! Vettel ended only one victory or so behind Button.

[acosmichippo]

What's this about Vettel starting his career in a dominant team? Vettel drove for Torro Rosso, a mid-field team. And even the full Red Bull team was not dominant in 2009.

Maybe he didn't "start" his career in a dominant team, but he's probably the youngest driver to be in such a dominant car. He's not even 24!

Dominant cars don't become dominant without having a masterful driver. Webber certainly isn't experiencing the same success, so it is entirely plausible that no other driver in F1 might have given Newey the skill sets and the feedback he needed as does Vettel to so perfectly refine his creation. It's equally as plausible that Vettel would provide the same developmental capabilities to Ferrari or Merc or Macca and he would find himself in this self-same position had he got a seat with any of them.

I didn't mean to imply I thought his success was ALL due to the car. I was simply addressing the fact that he's very young (in relation to other great drivers) to be in such a dominant position, so we better get used to it.

[Jabberwocky]

I could be like 2009, Button did well at the start and then trailed off at the end?!?!

in 2009, were the other teams already so convinced that they'd lost the championship after 8 races?

From memory I think most people where convinced from race 6

[darwin dali]

I could be like 2009, Button did well at the start and then trailed off at the end?!?!

in 2009, were the other teams already so convinced that they'd lost the championship after 8 races?

From memory I think most people where convinced from race 6

Not so sure though - many were thinking once the other teams installed their version of the double diffuser, then JB could be in trouble. Which of course almost happened.
Difference to this year: the Silverstone rule 'clarification' can be viewed as the last hurdle for SV and the last hope for the other teams. If that one doesn't rein in the Red Bulls, nothing will as the other teams appear baffled about how RB gets to be so fast.

[acosmichippo]

yeah, here the other top teams have ALREADY implemented their version of EBDs, which hasn't helped them. I think they all realize RBR just has a better overall car, which isn't going to be changed with a simple rule alteration or part change.

[FRAFPDD]

Also i kinda feel sorry towards Vettel he has alot of haters now because of him winning all the time...like somone said before...its looking like it might be like the 'Schumacher days' god i hope not

After Vettel's unexpected win in Monza, this led for the media to dub him the "Baby Schumi", "New Schumacher", but Vettel plays down the comparison stating he wanted to be the "New Vettel". He was not just dubbed for his nationality but also because of his driving style, his concentration and the hands-on role he plays behind the scenes with his team of engineers. One difference is that Schumacher does not name his car but Vettel does, Julie (2008), Kate, Kate's Dirty Sister (2009), Luscious Liz, Randy Mandy (2010) and Kinky Kylie (2011).

Nevertheless, the similarities are marked. Like Schumacher, Vettel grew up in a small town with an everyday background—Schumacher's father a bricklayer and Vettel's a carpenter. Both had their first taste of racing at the Kerpen karting track near Cologne, not far from the Nürburgring. Vettel began driving in his garden lapping the garden many times, not even stopping to eat or shower, before he could legally take to the roads, and says his passion for cars was nurtured by watching Schumacher compete. He did not know that he would actually get to race his hero.

Both Schumacher and Vettel impressed in their debut races, both of which took place in the middle of a Formula One season. Neither would ever drive for their debut teams again. Instead, both immediately joined with non-manufacturer teams based upon selling non-automobile related products. Approximately a year after joining their new teams, as underdogs they would stun the Formula One world by winning races in cars few believed capable of winning. In their third full Formula One season and both driving cars numbered 5, both won their first World Drivers' Championship, at which point both drivers had 10 Grand Prix wins on their records. Vettel became the youngest ever driver to win the World Drivers' Championship, while Schumacher, by a little over a week, only narrowly missed out on achieving the very same feat. Both drivers won their non-manufacturer teams' maiden World Drivers' Championship as well as World Constructors' Championship.

After winning his first championship in 2010, and being hailed as the 'Next Schumacher', Vettel has stated he does not want to aim for Schumacher's record after learning how hard it was to get one championship under his belt, though he would like to win more.

and both won championships in obscenely dominant cars.

Anyone listen to the Radio 5 live coverage today? I forget the young British Driver's name, it will come to me soon, he was saying on air that Vettel has started his career in a very dominant car, so it will be easy for him to re-write the record books.

I guess every now and again we get a special world championship, where the car wasn't the most dominant and the driver made the difference. Not many have had those.

They said the same about Hamilton, the very same about Hamilton, and hes in a far more likely team to give him a shot at schumachers records, .

I wouldn't be so sure about that,red bull after all have the biggest budget in F1,so surely they are the most likely to continue success.Yes McLaren have the name thats been about longer ,but money talks these days.Probably the reason why Williams are no longer a major player.

Renault had backing in 05/06 substantial, they went nowhere afterwards.

Red Bull IIRC have had such backing from the moment they took over jaguar.

Their car is not dominant because it has golden paddle-shifts, it has innovation and clever design, money doesnt buy that.

Im not saying Red Bull arent there to stay, id much rather they did and we had three top teams, infact Mercedes too and have four.

But they arent going to be that dominant in any relative terms much longer. The Williams of 92 and 93 was dominant,then it dropped off until 96-97 then it was nowhere.

Am i supposed to accept that Red Bull are going to dominate like they are for the next 5/6 years in a row, cause thats the absurd impression im getting from this apocalyptic talk going on, its utter nonsense.

[darwin dali]

Also i kinda feel sorry towards Vettel he has alot of haters now because of him winning all the time...like somone said before...its looking like it might be like the 'Schumacher days' god i hope not

After Vettel's unexpected win in Monza, this led for the media to dub him the "Baby Schumi", "New Schumacher", but Vettel plays down the comparison stating he wanted to be the "New Vettel". He was not just dubbed for his nationality but also because of his driving style, his concentration and the hands-on role he plays behind the scenes with his team of engineers. One difference is that Schumacher does not name his car but Vettel does, Julie (2008), Kate, Kate's Dirty Sister (2009), Luscious Liz, Randy Mandy (2010) and Kinky Kylie (2011).

Nevertheless, the similarities are marked. Like Schumacher, Vettel grew up in a small town with an everyday background—Schumacher's father a bricklayer and Vettel's a carpenter. Both had their first taste of racing at the Kerpen karting track near Cologne, not far from the Nürburgring. Vettel began driving in his garden lapping the garden many times, not even stopping to eat or shower, before he could legally take to the roads, and says his passion for cars was nurtured by watching Schumacher compete. He did not know that he would actually get to race his hero.

Both Schumacher and Vettel impressed in their debut races, both of which took place in the middle of a Formula One season. Neither would ever drive for their debut teams again. Instead, both immediately joined with non-manufacturer teams based upon selling non-automobile related products. Approximately a year after joining their new teams, as underdogs they would stun the Formula One world by winning races in cars few believed capable of winning. In their third full Formula One season and both driving cars numbered 5, both won their first World Drivers' Championship, at which point both drivers had 10 Grand Prix wins on their records. Vettel became the youngest ever driver to win the World Drivers' Championship, while Schumacher, by a little over a week, only narrowly missed out on achieving the very same feat. Both drivers won their non-manufacturer teams' maiden World Drivers' Championship as well as World Constructors' Championship.

After winning his first championship in 2010, and being hailed as the 'Next Schumacher', Vettel has stated he does not want to aim for Schumacher's record after learning how hard it was to get one championship under his belt, though he would like to win more.

and both won championships in obscenely dominant cars.

Anyone listen to the Radio 5 live coverage today? I forget the young British Driver's name, it will come to me soon, he was saying on air that Vettel has started his career in a very dominant car, so it will be easy for him to re-write the record books.

I guess every now and again we get a special world championship, where the car wasn't the most dominant and the driver made the difference. Not many have had those.

They said the same about Hamilton, the very same about Hamilton, and hes in a far more likely team to give him a shot at schumachers records, .

I wouldn't be so sure about that,red bull after all have the biggest budget in F1,so surely they are the most likely to continue success.Yes McLaren have the name thats been about longer ,but money talks these days.Probably the reason why Williams are no longer a major player.

Renault had backing in 05/06 substantial, they went nowhere afterwards.

Red Bull IIRC have had such backing from the moment they took over jaguar.

Their car is not dominant because it has golden paddle-shifts, it has innovation and clever design, money doesnt buy that.

Im not saying Red Bull arent there to stay, id much rather they did and we had three top teams, infact Mercedes too and have four.

But they arent going to be that dominant in any relative terms much longer. The Williams of 92 and 93 was dominant,then it dropped off until 96-97 then it was nowhere.

Am i supposed to accept that Red Bull are going to dominate like they are for the next 5/6 years in a row, cause thats the absurd impression im getting from this apocalyptic talk going on, its utter nonsense.

Harping back to the MS comparison: RB have a great young driver and they have some cracking personnel (Steve Matchett today called AN the best aerodynamicist ever in F1). So, a 5-year dynasty like Ferrari in the early 2000s is not out of the question. The monkey wrench could be the new engine in 2014 (if that ever happens), so 2010 to 2013 - that's 4 years. Not too shabby I'd say...