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[vegas]

Any last minute predictions upon the outcome of the hearing set for tomorrow Dec. 6th?

I highly doubt the FIA would take it as far as to ban Renault from competing.

[Martin]

I suppose that there is an assumption of guilt here. Maybe Renault will not be found guilty. However, on the evedence that we have now, it seems that guilty will be the outcome.
FIA have a difficult situation having just issued a severe penalty to McL.
I suspect a hefty fine but one that Renault can afford (I also suspect that parent Renault will bail them out rather than suffer the ignomy of being forced out of F1, however, they may then dump the team for 09)) and no points for 08. If guilty I dont see how FIA can do any less, but I agree that they will not want to put Renault out of the sport.
If guilty, but with a much lower penalty, then that will cause a major backlash for FIA.
On the face of it Renault have 'commited' a worse 'crime' than McL because their own employee stole data from McL then moved to Renault with it, unlike McL who received data from a Ferrari employee.

[raithrover]

I'm sure the FIA have probably already made their decision or found some piece of legislation to prompt a get-out clause.

They have to follow their previous decision with McLaren, at the very least.

[f1usa]

Fined $10M US and loss of 2007 constructor points. Bernie and Fabio are business partners, you can figure this one out.

[McLaren Fan]

The evidence against them is staggering making the McLaren-Ferrari saga look like the stuff of a school playground. There can only be one verdict: guilty as charged. As far as I'm concerned the FIA have set a precedent which they must follow. Renault must lose their 2006 (making Ferrari 2006 constructors' champions, and deserved too. See that DD, DeMuRe, M99) and 2007 points, have their car scutinised for McLaren intellectual property and suffer the same fate as McLaren stand to should they be found in possession of Ferrari intellectual property. They should be struck to the bottom of the pit lane and there must also be a very substantial fine, enough to cause inconvenience but not enough to force them out of Formula One. The drivers will have to go unpunished.

[bud]

apparently Renault is now claiming Ferrari stole their confidential technical interlectual property back in the 1996 season when they were Benetton.......













hehe i made that up

[darwin dali]

The evidence against them is staggering making the McLaren-Ferrari saga look like the stuff of a school playground. There can only be one verdict: guilty as charged. As far as I'm concerned the FIA have set a precedent which they must follow. Renault must lose their 2006 (making Ferrari 2006 constructors' champions, and deserved too. See that DD, DeMuRe, M99) and 2007 points, have their car scutinised for McLaren intellectual property and suffer the same fate as McLaren stand to should they be found in possession of Ferrari intellectual property. They should be struck to the bottom of the pit lane and there must also be a very substantial fine, enough to cause inconvenience but not enough to force them out of Formula One. The drivers will have to go unpunished.

Why 2006 points? Phil Mackereth left McLaren in September 2006, towards the end of the season and it would be doubtful that any of 'his' ideas could be implemented in that short amount of time to have an impact on the outcome of the championship...

[deMuRe]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Renault were stealing McLaren technical data it explains their sudden loss in form...

McLaren were using Ferrari technical data which explains there sudden upsurge in form...

Renault should have stolen Ferrari's data...

[bud]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Renault were stealing McLaren technical data it explains their sudden loss in form...

McLaren were using Ferrari technical data which explains there sudden upsurge in form...

Renault should have stolen Ferrari's data...

that sounds like something a kid fan would come up with!

[texasmr2]

I think Renault will be found guilty but I'm sure the FIA is aware that they cannot afford a fine such as the one imposed on McLaren. I'm not going to make a prediction as too what their fine's/penalty's will be but dont believe they will be banned.

[pit_babe]

Flavs mate bernie will see that renault come out of this smellijg of roses. This will be used as an exvuse by mosley to ban mclaren

[grumpyoldman]

The evidence against them is staggering making the McLaren-Ferrari saga look like the stuff of a school playground. There can only be one verdict: guilty as charged. As far as I'm concerned the FIA have set a precedent which they must follow. Renault must lose their 2006 (making Ferrari 2006 constructors' champions, and deserved too. See that DD, DeMuRe, M99) and 2007 points, have their car scutinised for McLaren intellectual property and suffer the same fate as McLaren stand to should they be found in possession of Ferrari intellectual property. They should be struck to the bottom of the pit lane and there must also be a very substantial fine, enough to cause inconvenience but not enough to force them out of Formula One. The drivers will have to go unpunished.

First post on this forum, so please be kind!

I just wondered why you think the drivers should go unpunished?

I realise McLaren drivers were not punished, but that was part of a deal with Bernie/Max (a deal I think should never have happened, and I am a McLaren fan). Punishments under the Regulations are for both teams and drivers in such cases; and drivers can only be "let-off" under exceptional circumstances; as was the case with McLaren. There are no such "exceptional" circumstances in Renaults case.

[texasmr2]

Welcome grumpyoldman. Now as far as alot of people's belief that the driver's should not be punished is strictly their personal opinion not the forum's opinion as a whole. It really depend's on the situation, for example: I think Alonso should have been removed completely from the '07 WDC via point's. Then again there may be a situation where the driver is unaware of what's going on with the technical side pertaining to data stolen/taken from another team and it's use.

[McLaren Fan]

Why 2006 points? Phil Mackereth left McLaren in September 2006, towards the end of the season and it would be doubtful that any of 'his' ideas could be implemented in that short amount of time to have an impact on the outcome of the championship...

How many doubts about the McLaren case were there?

McLaren were using Ferrari technical data which explains there sudden upsurge in form...

Great, so McLaren would have made better use of some Ferrari information than what Ferrari made of their own, complete information.

First post on this forum, so please be kind!

I just wondered why you think the drivers should go unpunished?

I realise McLaren drivers were not punished, but that was part of a deal with Bernie/Max (a deal I think should never have happened, and I am a McLaren fan). Punishments under the Regulations are for both teams and drivers in such cases; and drivers can only be "let-off" under exceptional circumstances; as was the case with McLaren. There are no such "exceptional" circumstances in Renaults case.

First, welcome to the forum, especially as a fellow McLaren supporter.

As for the drivers, the FIA have set a precedent which they must follow. How can they strip Alonso of his 2006 standing (world champion) and not have stripped him of his 2007 standing?

[Freddie]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Renault were stealing McLaren technical data it explains their sudden loss in form...

McLaren were using Ferrari technical data which explains there sudden upsurge in form...

Renault should have stolen Ferrari's data...

that sounds like something a kid fan would come up with!

Well yeah, it came from a Scummi fan, didn't it ?