FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[ds1666]

Re the Canadian Grand Prix - the way Button and Webber breezed past Shumacher was not real overtaking, more an unfair advantage using the DRS. Surely, DRS should be made available permanently and used by both the hunter and the hunted? Also, how come Schumi didn’t used his DRS immediately to try and get back past both, or was this not possible. Can someone explain when DRS can be used and when not?

[acosmichippo]

There's a DRS activation line prior to the DRS zone on each track. The relative position varies from track to track, but it's usually just before the antecedent turn. A driver gets to use DRS if he is within 1 second of the car in front. So Schumacher did not have DRS available because he was not within 1 second of another car at the activation point (before the previous turn). DRS is also deactivated for everyone on the first two laps of the GP and during wet conditions.

If DRS were available all the time for everyone, i think it would only benefit teams with great downforce like RBR since they'd be able to activate it earlier out of corners than others. That's probably one of the reasons they keep dominating qualifying.

[killem2]

And that engine mapping! They are kings at that right now!

[LewEngBridewell]

If DRS was available at all times to everyone, then it's effects would simply be cancelled out.

We are all still learning about DRS. I like it. DRS, combined with the new Pirelli tyres, have helped to create some really great racing. DRS is meant to make overtaking POSSIBLE, not EASY. This all depends on the location of the DRS activation point. Sometimes they've got it right, other times too early (like Canada) and other times too late. There's still more to learn from here...

[acosmichippo]

If DRS was available at all times to everyone, then it's effects would simply be cancelled out.

I disagree. The teams with more stable cars and drivers more brave with it would benefit.

[LewEngBridewell]

If DRS was available at all times to everyone, then it's effects would simply be cancelled out.

I disagree. The teams with more stable cars and drivers more brave with it would benefit.

But how much of an effect would it have on the amount of overtaking we're enjoying at the moment?

There have been many an instance where we have a queue of cars that have built up. Other than the car leading the pack, they all can activate DRS. Hardly anything happens in this case, because everyone is using it.

[acosmichippo]

Are you implying the only sign of a benefit with DRS is more overtaking?

And in the instance you mention, there's no difference because the activation point is I the middle of a straight - the same for everyone. If it were available all the time, each driver would activate it at different times based on their style and their car's capabilities.

[LewEngBridewell]

Are you implying the only sign of a benefit with DRS is more overtaking?

And in the instance you mention, there's no difference because the activation point is I the middle of a straight - the same for everyone. If it were available all the time, each driver would activate it at different times based on their style and their car's capabilities.

I suppose, although looking at qualifying, there doesn't seem to be that much variance in the deployment of DRS with regards to various points exiting corners and where these corners are on the track.

[geetface9]

Think back to the spanish grand prix. Webber got stuck behind Alonso for 20 something laps even with the DRS. Hamilton also got stuck behind Vettel with the DRS. It's not a guarantee at all. And Webber didn't just fly past schumacher, he had to try for several laps to get past him because even with DRS he had trouble getting back onto the dry racing line in order to make his move stick on schumacher. And button flew by because webber made a mistake, so DRS does not guarantee passing at all. Another instance, the first race of the year, button was stuck behind massa for several laps before finally passing him and being given a penalty for going off track.

[LewEngBridewell]

Think back to the spanish grand prix. Webber got stuck behind Alonso for 20 something laps even with the DRS. Hamilton also got stuck behind Vettel with the DRS. It's not a guarantee at all. And Webber didn't just fly past schumacher, he had to try for several laps to get past him because even with DRS he had trouble getting back onto the dry racing line in order to make his move stick on schumacher. And button flew by because webber made a mistake, so DRS does not guarantee passing at all. Another instance, the first race of the year, button was stuck behind massa for several laps before finally passing him and being given a penalty for going off track.

It depends more on the length of the straight. DRS was most obvious on the long straights of Shanghai and Istanbul. And as I said before, the aim of DRS is to make passing a bigger possibility, not to make it completely easy.

[Four mules as one]

It depends more on the length of the straight. DRS was most obvious on the long straights of Shanghai and Istanbul. And as I said before, the aim of DRS is to make passing a bigger possibility, not to make it completely easy.

Exactly, DRS needs to be made shorter in some circumstances. Reading in F1 Racing mag, J Villeneuve is not a supporter of it and I've always thought he was being a bit of a whinger because we have seen some awesome racing from it. But after seeing Schueys efforts in the wet go to waste at Canada due to DRS was very anti racing for me. I hope the next couple of races involve intermediate tyres cause then we may finally see the great man on the podium again.

But back to the debate, I hope they don't put DRS early in Brazil because it will end those do or die passes into turn one that we have seen from the likes of Kobayashi. If they do put it early then they should allow the overtaken driver to also use DRS once overtaken.

[LewEngBridewell]

It depends more on the length of the straight. DRS was most obvious on the long straights of Shanghai and Istanbul. And as I said before, the aim of DRS is to make passing a bigger possibility, not to make it completely easy.

But after seeing Schueys efforts in the wet go to waste at Canada due to DRS was very anti racing for me. I hope the next couple of races involve intermediate tyres cause then we may finally see the great man on the podium again.

There's no denying the fact that Schumacher wasn't fast enough to be on the podium in Montreal. The inevitable happened. DRS simply aided it, rather than created it.

[darwin dali]

It depends more on the length of the straight. DRS was most obvious on the long straights of Shanghai and Istanbul. And as I said before, the aim of DRS is to make passing a bigger possibility, not to make it completely easy.

But after seeing Schueys efforts in the wet go to waste at Canada due to DRS was very anti racing for me. I hope the next couple of races involve intermediate tyres cause then we may finally see the great man on the podium again.

There's no denying the fact that Schumacher wasn't fast enough to be on the podium in Montreal. The inevitable happened. DRS simply aided it, rather than created it.

It was the track drying. When it was wet, the Mercedes' inferior pace was equalized and MS's superior skills (rainmeister) brought him to the fore.

[geetface9]

Think back to the spanish grand prix. Webber got stuck behind Alonso for 20 something laps even with the DRS. Hamilton also got stuck behind Vettel with the DRS. It's not a guarantee at all. And Webber didn't just fly past schumacher, he had to try for several laps to get past him because even with DRS he had trouble getting back onto the dry racing line in order to make his move stick on schumacher. And button flew by because webber made a mistake, so DRS does not guarantee passing at all. Another instance, the first race of the year, button was stuck behind massa for several laps before finally passing him and being given a penalty for going off track.

It depends more on the length of the straight. DRS was most obvious on the long straights of Shanghai and Istanbul. And as I said before, the aim of DRS is to make passing a bigger possibility, not to make it completely easy.

I agreed with you. Even when it was as obvious like in shanghai, the one making the pass had to brake off line in the marbles, and there were several instances where it was unsuccessful, such as nico rosberg and vitaly petrov overshooting the hairpin. I also have listed 4 different tracks out of 7 this year where it has resulted in unsuccessful passing attempts so it is understood that the DRS does not guarantee passing.

[LewEngBridewell]

Think back to the spanish grand prix. Webber got stuck behind Alonso for 20 something laps even with the DRS. Hamilton also got stuck behind Vettel with the DRS. It's not a guarantee at all. And Webber didn't just fly past schumacher, he had to try for several laps to get past him because even with DRS he had trouble getting back onto the dry racing line in order to make his move stick on schumacher. And button flew by because webber made a mistake, so DRS does not guarantee passing at all. Another instance, the first race of the year, button was stuck behind massa for several laps before finally passing him and being given a penalty for going off track.

It depends more on the length of the straight. DRS was most obvious on the long straights of Shanghai and Istanbul. And as I said before, the aim of DRS is to make passing a bigger possibility, not to make it completely easy.

I agreed with you. Even when it was as obvious like in shanghai, the one making the pass had to break off line in the marbles, and there were several instances where it was unsuccessful, such as nico rosberg and vitaly petrov overshooting the hairpin. I also have listed 4 different tracks out of 7 this year where it has resulted in unsuccessful passing attempts so it is understood that the DRS does not guarantee passing.

Agreed.