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[PartsaS]

It was a crazy race, no doubt about it. I am a little pissed at the fact that Alonso was robbed again of a chance of winning (Monaco & Canada).
Well, one can assume that the incident with Button was a racing incident and unfortunately that ruined Alonso's race. He was about to pass JB and who knows he could have at least made it to the podium or even better we could have seen a battle between FA and SV.
Seeing that Vettel made a mistake in Canada, who knows he could have made one in Monaco if Alonso kept the pressure on him and the race did not get red flagged.
But if Button did not deserve a penalty according to the stewards, then where is the consistency? They can't penalize one driver in one race, and let another one off the hook in another race. Both incidents with Hamilton and Alonso were mostly Button's fault, yet he walks away with no penalties. Also, why did they wait till after the race to investigate them when there was plenty of time to make those decisions during the race.
Button had the pace to pass a lot of cars but he was about to be overtaken by Alonso! Yes he made it all the way from the back but was helped a lot by all the safety cars. I think that after the race restarted , if there were no more SC, it was less likely for Button to win and considering that Alonso was going to pass him, he might have finished 2nd at best.
Anyways, I would like to see consistency from the stewards. Either they should let the drivers race or should have the same mind set regarding all the drivers during all races.

I understand you are upset about Alonso n Button incident. It would be nice to see Alonso up there fighting with the others for podium. But Button was way faster than Alonso at that moment and tried to overtake him from the inside! Alonso wasn't about to overtake button at any point , he just fought back Buttons overtake from the outside line and over the kerbs while Button had already been in the clear racing line. MAybe if it wasn't wet he might hadn't end up out of the race as the contact wasn't so bad.
After all Button got his tyre broken and he made an extra pitstop because of that, which send him way back on the grid!
So Imo it was a fair punishment for him.
As for Lewis it was mostly his fault trying to pass his teamate from the outside while he knows the racing line Button was going to take. I believe Button didn't see anything at the moment and Lewis should be more carefull and wait a bit untill he makes a move.

He saw clearly...the replays showed the guy looking at his left rear mirror and simply closing the door when Lewis was already thereabouts. He tried intimidating Lewis into braking and caused him to retire. Look at it from his perspective. Everyone's lost count of the times Lewis has simply overtaken him on track, and it seems this time his ego played up a bit too much, and he got fantastically lucky his car was spared from the contact. If the wall wasn't there, we would've had the exact scene of what happened to Redbull in Turkey, Jenson spinning out of contention like Vettel.

Next time this scenario plays out, I hope Lewis never yields , and takes out Button along with himself. This should help Jenson understand he's dealing with no pushover.

Even though he looked at his mirror he couldn't see clearly where exactly Lewis was or the speed he had. I'm maybe wrong but the visibility was very low at the moment especially through his wet mirror.
Don't you think Lewis should consider this fact before he attempted a pass from the left. Even if Button did see him and moved at the right, it would still be an accident as Lewis was trying to pass from the outside, and Button had to drive off the racing line into a difficult corner.
Usually the one who overtakes drives off the line and thus taking a risk, Why should Button move aside just becouse Lewis was coming faster, he had every right to follow his racing line excactly as Schumi did in front of them.

[bud]

Fact Man at it again he should change his name, Button was making a pass on Alonso when they touched. Not the other way around... get your facts straight!

[myownalias]

I can't believe that people are suggesting that Jenson would deliberately move across; he says he didn't see him in his mirrors and I believe him, I've never known Jenson to deliberately crash into another driver on purpose, let alone his team mate; in fact he tends to be a little too generous allowing more room than absolutely needed for the passing car. Plus the fact that a collision could have caused serious damage to his own car, risking taking himself out of the race to stop his team mate from overtaking; JB is too calculated to allow that to happen!

[spankyham]

Everyone knows I'm very much of the view that all these incidents we've talked about recently (Monaco and now Canada) should all be classified as racing incidents and definitely no action should be taken.

However, having watched the Button/Hamilton incident, it really reminded me of an incident last year which garnered a very different reaction from the race officials and the forum here in general. Now I'm not saying they were the same, but there are similarities (well for me anyway). I'm thinking of the Schumi/Ruben at Hungary. It was in the dry there, which probably made it a little safer and, in the end, there was no contact, but I do recall how heavily people came down on Schumi then - and in that case he was in front and didn't cause contact. For sure drivers are very aware of cars behind them, especially if they are attempting to pass, so, for me, in both instances, the guy in front knew there was a car behind and knew they would try to pass - that's a definite given whether they specifically looked in their mirrors at the moment or not. It is very clear that both Schumi and Jenson moved over. Schumi left enough room for a car, Jenson definitely didn't. Very different reactions in each case.

If you read my opening line, you'll probably guess that, if I was in charge at Hungary last year, I would have have let that go as well.

[Hammer278]

Everyone knows I'm very much of the view that all these incidents we've talked about recently (Monaco and now Canada) should all be classified as racing incidents and definitely no action should be taken.

However, having watched the Button/Hamilton incident, it really reminded me of an incident last year which garnered a very different reaction from the race officials and the forum here in general. Now I'm not saying they were the same, but there are similarities (well for me anyway). I'm thinking of the Schumi/Ruben at Hungary. It was in the dry there, which probably made it a little safer and, in the end, there was no contact, but I do recall how heavily people came down on Schumi then - and in that case he was in front and didn't cause contact. For sure drivers are very aware of cars behind them, especially if they are attempting to pass, so, for me, in both instances, the guy in front knew there was a car behind and knew they would try to pass - that's a definite given whether they specifically looked in their mirrors at the moment or not. It is very clear that both Schumi and Jenson moved over. Schumi left enough room for a car, Jenson definitely didn't. Very different reactions in each case.

If you read my opening line, you'll probably guess that, if I was in charge at Hungary last year, I would have have let that go as well.

Bit of an oxymoron thingy there eh Spanky? So drivers don't really have to give room anymore for a faster car alongside, how do we overtake on track anymore then.

[spankyham]

Bit of an oxymoron thingy there eh Spanky? So drivers don't really have to give room anymore for a faster car alongside, how do we overtake on track anymore then.

I think the obsession with overtaking and trying to eliminate all risk is causing F1 to become bland. Personally, I don't care for most of the overtakes we see.

And, yes, the premise of your supposition is correct - my view would make overtaking much harder. But, then again, I think the guy in front has a right to have things stacked in his favour - simply because he's worked his way to the front

It doesn't mean overtaking would be impossible thought. I'm certain I don't need to find youtube footage of great overtakes from the past for you. But let me say that, had Lewis thought that Jenson would move over on him, perhaps he could have jinked to the left waited for Jenson to cover then simply taken him on the right (remember under current rules Jenson can only change direction once). That's one way.

Another way would be as some of the more, shall we say patient, drivers used to do, they would "set up" their pass over a few laps, showing the guy in front a move to one side, then doing it again, each time encouraging the guy to cover that side a little more each time, then, wait for them to move that way and immediately go the other side. I really miss seeing the jinks and moves being setup like that. It was great to watch it, and sometimes you'd realize what the driver behind was trying to setup and you could watch the chess battle unfold.

Other ways of passing is to use different lines and apexes into various corners, if you put your apex later then the guy in front has to go wider after your apex and simply has to leave you room, as long as your car can turn in where required and brake later as needed. But that later braking and ability to get the car turned in, or save your tyres that little bit more than the guy ahead so that you could use them to make the pass.

We seem to have traded all those for the instant coffee DRS pass, or the bland never defend option cause there might be the risk of a racing incident.

[racechick]

Have to agree with much of what you say spanky, the rules and the inconsistency in which they are applied are killing overtaking and leave drivers not really knowing what they can or cannot do. I also noted the similarity with the Schumacher/Barrichelo move, which received a punishment. And the Jenson move on Alonso, so similar to Lewis and maldanado, yet Jenson gets no punishemnt and Lewis does. Is this becuaes the stewards perceive lewis and Schumacher as bad boys? Are they making subjective rather than objective decisions? Or are they just incompetent?
Again I have to agree with you Spanky that this is motor racing and cars will touch. The vast majority will be racing incidents and should not receive investigation. Too many meddling rules.

As a point of interest of the 280(or thereabouts) successful overtakes this year Lewis has made 10% of them.

[acosmichippo]

regarding the Schumi/Reubens incident, didn't Schumi move OFF of the racing line then? Jenson made NO move against the racing line. He was moving over (gradually, before hamilton made the pass attempt), but that's where the racing line went. Just look at the cars in front of Jenson - they were all on the same line.

Furthermore, I'd think the best judge of this would be the guy in the trailing cockpit. Reubens clearly thought something was off, but Hamilton has since accepted fault and was even partying with the team after the race. Given his recent PR blunders, I'd find it hard to believe he'd do that if he honestly thought otherwise.

And finally, I admit this is slightly more open to debate, but after watching it on youtube, it seems to me when Jenson looked in his mirror, Lewis was still directly behind. And Just after Jenson looked back to the track, Hamilton made his move to the outside.

In case anyone wants to re-watch:

[youtube]usXtakwdgpU[/youtube]

[Jabberwocky]

The difference is that Schumacher knew that Rubens was there, Jenson did not know Lewis was there, if you look at the replays Jenson looked ahead slightly before Lewis pulled out

[acosmichippo]

you beat me to my edit.

[Herbs]

People are still trying to blame Jenson for the incident with Hamilton? Surely freaking not. Hamilton needs to pull his head in.

[acosmichippo]

Everyone knows I'm very much of the view that all these incidents we've talked about recently (Monaco and now Canada) should all be classified as racing incidents and definitely no action should be taken.

However, having watched the Button/Hamilton incident, it really reminded me of an incident last year which garnered a very different reaction from the race officials and the forum here in general. Now I'm not saying they were the same, but there are similarities (well for me anyway). I'm thinking of the Schumi/Ruben at Hungary. It was in the dry there, which probably made it a little safer and, in the end, there was no contact, but I do recall how heavily people came down on Schumi then - and in that case he was in front and didn't cause contact. For sure drivers are very aware of cars behind them, especially if they are attempting to pass, so, for me, in both instances, the guy in front knew there was a car behind and knew they would try to pass - that's a definite given whether they specifically looked in their mirrors at the moment or not. It is very clear that both Schumi and Jenson moved over. Schumi left enough room for a car, Jenson definitely didn't. Very different reactions in each case.

If you read my opening line, you'll probably guess that, if I was in charge at Hungary last year, I would have have let that go as well.

Bit of an oxymoron thingy there eh Spanky? So drivers don't really have to give room anymore for a faster car alongside, how do we overtake on track anymore then.

It's a self-governing situation, as it has always been. Driver B decides to stick his nose in to try a risky pass, Driver A has to decide whether to let him through and continue the race, or keep his line and risk damage to his car. As long as there isn't a deliberate turn into another car (against the racing line), no disciplinary action should be taken. That's why the reaction to Schumi/Reubens was so severe - Schumi clearly moved WAY off the racing line to move reubens into the wall. He shoved him into the completely opposite side of the track only a few meters before the next turn.

I'm not sure what the rules are exactly, but those are my feelings.

[spankyham]

The difference is that Schumacher knew that Rubens was there, Jenson did not know Lewis was there, if you look at the replays Jenson looked ahead slightly before Lewis pulled out

Rest assured, Jenson knew Lewis was there and he knew Lewis would try to pass, and he didn't need to look in his mirrors to learn either of those 2 facts. It disappoints me that we didn't hear this "yeah, I saw him and tried to close the door as quickly as possible".

People are still trying to blame Jenson for the incident with Hamilton? Surely freaking not. Hamilton needs to pull his head in.

I can only speak for myself, and, my view is no-one is at fault when one guy wants to pass and one guy wants to stop him from passing. It's like saying you can play football but from here on in, there is no physical contact allowed. Contact's going to happen. That and we need something to fill the 2 week void between races

[acosmichippo]

The difference is that Schumacher knew that Rubens was there, Jenson did not know Lewis was there, if you look at the replays Jenson looked ahead slightly before Lewis pulled out

Rest assured, Jenson knew Lewis was there and he knew Lewis would try to pass, and he didn't need to look in his mirrors to learn either of those 2 facts. It disappoints me that we didn't hear this "yeah, I saw him and tried to close the door as quickly as possible".

Of course he knew Lewis was directly behind him and he was going to try to pass. But did he know he was going to try it on the outside? I don't think so. And Jenson did not "close the door as quickly as possible". He moved over very gradually just like every other car in that section.

And also, no one seems to address the fact that Lewis has accepted fault.

[Lewis] told BBC Radio 5 Live's podcast: 'Yeah my fault entirely, I was in the wrong place really at the wrong time."

http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport ... 51584.html

[Jabberwocky]

Even if Jenson knew that Lewis was going down the outside (which I do not believe he did) Jenson did not alter his line/make a move so how is that closing the door? It is up to the passing driver to pass safely.

No on started shouting last year when Webber mounted one of the Lotus' that the Lotus was in the wrong