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[F1er]

When he stops playing the race card, going for overtakes that aren't there and blaming others for his mistakes, he will win a WDC again.

So that's whats stopping him??? Did it cross your mind that the car might have something to do with it?

[What's Burning?]

I understand what you are saying WB but what I consider to be a great driver is someone who is aggressive (for example Jenson's drive in Brazil 2009) when needed but calm and collected at other times, picking and choosing where to attack; for Lewis it's basically all or nothing which can be a plus on some circuits and a big negative on others.

I agree and it's clear that Lewis is a double edged sword. It's also clear that is the reason for his success and arguably the reason for his failures. I find it fascinating how much progress we can make into really identifying a core issue when people aren't here looking to blame, argue or change someone's mind.

It really does go a long way towards explaining the dichotomy we observe on the forum.

[What's Burning?]

When he stops playing the race card, going for overtakes that aren't there and blaming others for his mistakes, he will win a WDC again.

So that's whats stopping him??? Did it cross your mind that the car might have something to do with it?

Remember, we're here just stating opinion, not trying to change minds.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

I don't think Hamilton is overrated as a driver but he is demonstrating a lack of character that could undermine his potential.

I don't so much fault his arrogance. You know they must all be arrogant, some just don't put it on display. I don't think it is possible to do what they do without you have an overdose of self-confidence. What vexes me most about Hamilton is that he shows no hesitancy to lay his own failures at the feet of any convenient target. This does not curry favour with either your competitors or your teammates.

And now he is over-anxious, "snake-bit", as they say. His desperation drove him to make numerous mental mistakes at Monaco which, unfortunately, were more costly to Massa, Maldonado and Alguersuari than to himself. His fit of pique drew the stewards' wrath, and rightly so.

The true test of character comes when you awaken to find success has deserted you. Hamilton either will learn to take his lumps like a man or he will discover that light he sees at the dark end of the tunnel is a locomotive headed his way, and it is running balls to the wall.

Remember, we're here just stating opinion, not trying to change minds.

Speak for yourself.

[What's Burning?]

Remember, we're here just stating opinion, not trying to change minds.

Speak for yourself.

It's a thread discussing Lewis Hamilton and it's five pages long now wihtout mudslinging... I'm just doing my green coat part. At the risk of sounding like a stick int he mud.

[F1er]

When he stops playing the race card, going for overtakes that aren't there and blaming others for his mistakes, he will win a WDC again.

So that's whats stopping him??? Did it cross your mind that the car might have something to do with it?

Remember, we're here just stating opinion, not trying to change minds.

Yes I know,but we also need to use some logic no?

[What's Burning?]

When he stops playing the race card, going for overtakes that aren't there and blaming others for his mistakes, he will win a WDC again.

So that's whats stopping him??? Did it cross your mind that the car might have something to do with it?

Remember, we're here just stating opinion, not trying to change minds.

Yes I know,but we also need to use some logic no?

They're using logic just like you just coming to a different conclusion. This thread can only survive on the straight and narrow.

[texasmr2]

Who is this Hamilton person you all speak of ?? I asked my kitty kitty and she said "I don't know G he could be an alien!"

[acosmichippo]

It would seem that the people that like him, don't mind his personality (for whatever reason) and they focus on simply his driving style. The people that don't like him choose not to separate or are unable to separate the two.

Exactly. To me, what these guys do after the checkered flag is completely irrelevant to enjoying the sport. They're F1 drivers: they have zero influence on my life apart from a few hours every other weekend.

Cases in point:

1) I think Vettel is a cool, off-beat kinda guy. Hate seeing him win, though. Yawn.
2) Hamilton seems a bit immature, but I love watching him race, and I root for him because he's the only driver that can challenge Vettel on a regular basis.
3) Everyone else just seem like PR puppets in front of microphones. Nothing wrong with that, I guess. Especially when you're in one of the most prestigious sports in the world. But that doesn't mean I ignore them on the track. Kobayashi is awesome. I root for Webber and Button because I like underdogs. Di Resta too because he took such a different path to F1 than the others.

Could go on. Point being, it's nothing personal. As if we could get a true representation of their personality through the media anyway.

[CarBore]

And let me play along with (if) he is over rated.............where does that leave Jenson Button who can not beat Lewis in a straight up fight???

The difference is that no-one ever really rates Jenson Button do they? I've heard everything from "he's just plain slow" to "he's not a worthy world champion" on this forum.

I understand what you are saying WB but what I consider to be a great driver is someone who is aggressive (for example Jenson's drive in Brazil 2009) when needed but calm and collected at other times, picking and choosing where to attack; for Lewis it's basically all or nothing which can be a plus on some circuits and a big negative on others.

^^

The quote on BBC site (this might be of dubious reliability but...) that Hamilton would rather quit F1 than change sums up what makes him 'incomplete', for lack of a better word. I am by no means implying he is bad, he is by all reasonable measures on of the best in the current field. But his refusal to adapt when it would be beneficial shows flaws. You say his style can gain him more than it loses but what if he only acted that way when it was going to gain for him?

His apparent inability to deal with problems mentally would be his other major 'short coming'. Again this is relative and by no means implies poor overall worth. But look back to 2010 when Ferrari were faultering or Red Bull were having engines blow up from first place. Alonso and Vettel were much more philosophical and calm about it and didn't let it affect them to the same degree that Hamilton does when things go wrong.

[texasmr2]

Could Lewis be our modern day James Hunt ?

[billindenver]

Its sad that one race where he was not 'perfect', he's already being questioned about talent/skill/WDC capabilities. Fickleness knows no bounds.

Oh my god.

The ONE race where he wasnt perfect? One race you say? You mean other than beaching his car in pit lane, rear ending a competitor in pit lane, running over Alonso on a straight away, hitting the pitlane button on the track, punting countless competitors into the grass and then calling them monkeys at the back, countless over aggression mistakes causing DNF's and title losses...man I could go on and on. You didn't really just say the ONE RACE where he was not 'perfect'....did you? Seriously? I challenge you to show me a driver who has made more mistakes that cost his team championships. Hamilton's problem isn't his lack of driving skill...it's his inability to prevent the countless mistakes....and you claim he is perfect in all races but this one?

You seriously have to be kidding. Right?

[F1er]

And let me play along with (if) he is over rated.............where does that leave Jenson Button who can not beat Lewis in a straight up fight???

The difference is that no-one ever really rates Jenson Button do they? I've heard everything from "he's just plain slow" to "he's not a worthy world champion" on this forum.

I understand what you are saying WB but what I consider to be a great driver is someone who is aggressive (for example Jenson's drive in Brazil 2009) when needed but calm and collected at other times, picking and choosing where to attack; for Lewis it's basically all or nothing which can be a plus on some circuits and a big negative on others.

^^
Vettel were much more philosophical and calm about it and didn't let it affect them to the same degree that Hamilton does when things go wrong.

Like when he crashed Webbber and blamed him? Or when he crashed Button? What about the drive through where he was throwing his hand out all pissy because he didn't know the safety car rules?

Short selective memory?

[What's Burning?]

we know the drum beat, this thread needs to be kept free from it or it's done.

[F1er]

Its sad that one race where he was not 'perfect', he's already being questioned about talent/skill/WDC capabilities. Fickleness knows no bounds.

Oh my god.
I challenge you to show me a driver who has made more mistakes that cost his team championships.

You seriously have to be kidding. Right?

Alonso 2007/2010